Rushing BC vs Infinity Edge

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LtEarthworm

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Senior Member

10-26-2011

This is mainly for Tristana because this is how I build her (Ashe I'll typically go for IE, Graves Bloodthirster)
I want to know what other people think about it. After getting Berserker's Greaves I build a Black Cleaver for the attack speed + damage + armor reduction. It's slightly less AD than IE, and doesn't increase crit damage or chance, but I feel the total package is more important early game than what IE offers (which is what I build next anyways). The downside to getting BC is though that you may have to sell it later for Last Whisper if anyone stacks armor.


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Burbinator

Senior Member

10-27-2011

Here's the thing about BC:

in a low armor range, it is cost inefficient. This is because you are reducing their armor to the where your arpen from runes/masteries will no longer have any effect ( if you are reducing them below 31, or if they have 76~ armor, assuming quints + reds + sunder).

In a high armor range, it is cost inefficient. Obviously... last whisper.

Of course there is a short period of time in which BC is the most cost efficient, but the window of time in which it is ideal is relatively small and it has no place in an end game build.

Also, AS is a less important stat for trist who already has that amazing AS steroid, thus you want crit + AD.

IMO if you are going for two big ticket AD items in a row rather than BV in between or w/e, you should really grab thirster. Good sustain for the end of laning phase, trist can farm waves fairly well with her kit, and it's really awesome being able to heal up after jumping away so that you can stay in teamfights for longer.

just my 2c


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ĐazH

Junior Member

10-27-2011

on trist... rushing IE > BC, Tristana's Q + %Crit + CritDmg = Pwn.


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acosn

Senior Member

10-27-2011

You never rush a Black Cleaver simply because there isn't a champion that naturally shreds armor but also is auto-attack heavy.

And you simply don't waste gold on AS items for Trist early on- you have an AS steroid that's probably the strongest in the game. Take advantage of it- you're already playing someone who's generally accepted as the weakest ranged AD carry ATM.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

10-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by acosn View Post
...there isn't a champion that naturally shreds armor but also is auto-attack heavy.
Corki would like a word with you.


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Soldrart

Senior Member

10-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Corki would like a word with you.
If you think corki likes BC, stop playing him now, for him BT is FAR superior. But back on subject, Kayle says hi. =D I don't rush it on her, but it is valuable for kayle, as the reduction is part of how she supports these days.


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BackDoorer

Senior Member

10-27-2011

i dunno about you guys.. but on corki i get trinity force first >.>

OR unless i'm dominating, i get sheen then a best friend sword item


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SynergyDreamer

Senior Member

10-27-2011

Lol Kayle's passive. HEY AMUMU GET A MALADY!

On a more serious note: It's not as if Trist has that 30-90% AS boost on 24/7. BC is nice if you decided to get Swiftness or Merc Treads instead of Zerker's. If you can actually afford to use Zerker's and not die then IE, definitely.
And look, against the squishies you have AT LEAST ArPen Marks. So you already bypass 15. Bypass another 45 via BC, and you're dealing close to true damage to anyone who hasn't bought armor.

BT, BC, and Trintiy are all pretty good items on Corki...not like BT ISN'T good on any generic AD Carry. :u


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

10-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldrart View Post
If you think corki likes BC, stop playing him now, for him BT is FAR superior. But back on subject, Kayle says hi. =D I don't rush it on her, but it is valuable for kayle, as the reduction is part of how she supports these days.
I didn't say anything about Corki 'liking' BC. I was merely pointing to the fact that there is a champion that naturally shreds armor, and is auto-attack heavy. The quoted poster seemed to think there was not.

I did run a few tests awhile back with Corki, BC, and Stark's Fervor and found that the bonus damage from the huge amount of negative armor adds roughly an extra BF Sword worth of damage to auto-attacks. Not that it's an ideal build, but it was an interesting discovery.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

10-27-2011
1 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burbinator View Post
In a high armor range, it is cost inefficient. Obviously... last whisper.
i'm not sure why people like to hate on bc. it's like whenever i hear someone say wota isn't a good item--the mind boggles.

black cleaver costs only 2865g. it gives ~2035g worth of ad and ~785g worth of as.
you're paying less than 50g for the shred, so the item should always be considered cost efficient.

assuming only 31 a.pen:
-with a black cleaver, you deal 'true damage' to targets with 76 or less armor after three attacks.
-your target would have to have over 140 armor for last whisper to penetrate harder than you can shred--even then, you're the only champion that benefits against that target.

also, your teammates benefit from the 45 armor reduction (people seem to forget about this when calculating 'deeps').

so, i'm not saying everyone should build it always, but i think it's a much better item than it's given credit for.