Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Do something to shaco for dominion

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Elealar

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Stimuz:
So much misinformation in this post.

2-shiv = 1.0 ap scaling 0.5 ad scaling. Never seen someone break 350 AD without an ability that buffs it so yeah AD scaling is mostly negligible. I say mostly because it does scale off your BASE damage and not just bonus and that just makes rank 1 shiv that much sweeter for AP.

AD does have a massive deceive advantage until AP shaco buys a lichbane, then AD shaco only has an autoattack advantage.


I was counting the auto-attack involved into AD Shaco's burst. Obviously Two-Shiv hits for more on AP chassis but it still hurts with AD and the follow-up Lichbane/Crit will probably be similar. And then the second attack will probably be way more on AD Shaco's side already, let alone if you used Hallucinate and got a clone attack in too.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stimuz

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
AD however does iterative attacks and his clone does ****loads too so it doesn't take many seconds for him to exceed AP Shaco's damage even lategame. There's a reason you want AD carries in SR teams after all; they deal the largest amounts of sustained damage in the game while AP types deal larger burst damage.

AD Shaco has massive sustained damage in addition to reasonable burst, while AP Shaco has superior burst but no sustained damage. Criticals are the big thing that keeps AD Shaco up there (and obviously, you have Sheen procs too tho they aren't that big). Lichbane + 1 damage spell is still rather low far as damage spectrum goes, compared to AD Shaco or other Lichbane users, even if the spell's AP ratio is 1.0.


The ratio of his ult and shiv are 1.0, from behind its 1.2. Highest scaling in the game outside of ultimates. Shiv under 5s cd with high CDR also which you can get with just DFG, boots and masteries. AD shaco is good though, he has a very powerful early game and doesn't really fall off, but he doesn't snowball like AP does either.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Elealar

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Stimuz:
The ratio of his ult and shiv are 1.0, from behind its 1.2. Highest scaling in the game outside of ultimates. Shiv under 5s cd with high CDR also which you can get with just DFG, boots and masteries. AD shaco is good though, he has a very powerful early game and doesn't really fall off, but he doesn't snowball like AP does either.


Yeah, but the ult is really awkward; I wouldn't really count the explosion part as reliable damage. His E ratio is good but the fact that he only has one damaging spell really brings his composite damage down. E.g. Kassadin only has .7, .7 and .5 AP ratios but he still bursts way harder than AP Shaco with the same items (he also uses Lichbane and DFG very well) simply because he has more abilities that scale off AP. The relevant number is the composite AP of all the abilities of a champion, and for Shaco that's effectively 1.0 unless you can count on landing his ultimate.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stimuz

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
Yeah, but the ult is really awkward; I wouldn't really count the explosion part as reliable damage. His E ratio is good but the fact that he only has one damaging spell really brings his composite damage down. E.g. Kassadin only has .7, .7 and .5 AP ratios but he still bursts way harder than AP Shaco with the same items (he also uses Lichbane and DFG very well) simply because he has more abilities that scale off AP. The relevant number is the composite AP of all the abilities of a champion, and for Shaco that's effectively 1.0 unless you can count on landing his ultimate.


Now you're just pretending shacos W doesn't exist.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Elealar

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Stimuz:
Now you're just pretending shacos W doesn't exist.


I thought this discussion was about how much AP Shaco contributes outside the JitBs. We already agreed the JitBs are awesome; I was merely pointing out that they're by far the biggest contribution an AP Shaco brings to the table while AD Shaco has weaker boxes but brings a more robust suite otherwise; AP Shaco has Boxes and then acts as a medium damage AP burst mage, while AD Shaco has Boxes that do significantly less damage but brings Clone damage and more up-front pain on the personal chassis into play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stimuz

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Elealar:
I thought this discussion was about how much AP Shaco contributes outside the JitBs. We already agreed the JitBs are awesome; I was merely pointing out that they're by far the biggest contribution an AP Shaco brings to the table while AD Shaco has weaker boxes but brings a more robust suite otherwise; AP Shaco has Boxes and then acts as a medium damage AP burst mage, while AD Shaco has Boxes that do significantly less damage but brings Clone damage and more up-front pain on the personal chassis into play.


He does contribute a lot without JitB, but you can't ignore that part of his kit either.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

brainlizard

Senior Member

10-26-2011

AD Shaco boxes are still very effective, you just have to have a champ nearby to really make use of them.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Drunken Madman

Member

10-26-2011

Play Galio. Shaco's boxes only tickle him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arance

Senior Member

10-26-2011

You could remove AP Shaco's jitb from the game and he'd still be viable in Dominion as a harasser and backdoor capper. Doesn't matter if you have Hextech, Oracles, or Lightbringer any half decent Shaco will stealth away before you get a chance to use them. Then he just comes back and continues capping or move to another point. This will always waste more attention for the enemy than for Shaco's team.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Spooooooooky

Member

10-26-2011

Step 1) Pick Yorick.
Step 2) Drop ghoul on boxes
Step 3) Shaco countered