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Do something to shaco for dominion

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Ulstan

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Pushing a lane towards shaco's box nest shouldn't take anything like 2 minutes unless you are playing a bruiser melee with no aoe at all - in which case, yeah, shaco kind of counters those, and that's the whole point: champs like akali, poppy, jax, etc, are generally highly favored on dominion and this is one of the few things keeping them in check.

If you do push a minion wave to Shaco's turret, you've just nullified all his boxes and all the time he spent putting them up is useless. Plus he's not even that good at clearing a minion wave once it hits his turret and the boxes are down. Just relentlessly push the lane. What's that, you don't have a pusher? Well that's just bad team composition.


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FDru

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Ulstan:

If you do push a minion wave to Shaco's turret, you've just nullified all his boxes and all the time he spent putting them up is useless.


No. What actually happened is he just got rich because his boxes destroyed your entire minion wave for him, he still has 3-4 boxes on the other side of the turret completely preventing anyone from approaching it from one side, and can sit there nuking you with heinous shiv damage to keep you from attempting a cap from the side you just pushed.

Minions are only a problem if the Shaco is an idiot.


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redheadtn

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Look at a number of heros who "break the game "
Heimdinger: Solo bot. GG if they don't have ez.
Rammus: The ninja capping god. Usually take me like 5-6 boxes to kill him.
Talon: One of the best late gamers if not the best. Hard to counter and one shots most people late game.
Jax and Akali: Semi-broken. Not so much so since the gunblade nerf but still.


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Ulstan

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
FDru:
Stack a bunch of MR so I don't get insta-gibbed by a random nest (which, in reality, can consist of a whole two boxes)

Great, I can now "counter" Shaco. Too bad I am now getting completely destroyed by all the AD and tanky derps on his team


You should be building MR anyway, unless you like being destroyed by people like Jax and Poppy.


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DarkOneBR

Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
FDru:
No. What actually happened is he just got rich because his boxes destroyed your entire minion wave for him, he still has 3-4 boxes on the other side of the turret completely preventing anyone from approaching it from one side, and can sit there nuking you with heinous shiv damage to keep you from attempting a cap from the side you just pushed.

Minions are only a problem if the Shaco is an idiot.


So you are complaining that the Shaco camps and pours all of his resources into defending 1 single turret?

Well, there are another 4 you can cap and the game is now 5 v 4.

Had an enemy Shaco do this to my team once, his team lost, but we never did cap that windmill, nope he got that thing shut down tighter than an otter's *******, that's water proof btw.

The strong Shaco players ninjacap points and keeps 2 champs occupied recaping it while his team caps other points, so keeping someone on the look out to stop a Shaco ninjacapping can tone him down alot.

You can also try playing a more aggressive style since he has alot less teamfight potencial than other champs.

Since the Shaco is stuck defending a point, using a good pushing hero will also end up recapping a point, and if you actually hit a point with 2 heroes + the creep wave that point is pretty much a guaranteed recap.


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Ulstan

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
FDru:
No. What actually happened is he just got rich because his boxes destroyed your entire minion wave for him, he still has 3-4 boxes on the other side of the turret completely preventing anyone from approaching it from one side


If a single Shaco has spent the whole game putting down 12-16 boxes at a single turret, why on EARTH are you attacking THAT turret? Go somewhere else where his boxes aren't. Grats, it's effectively a 5v4. You can spend 30s pushing the lane towards his turret every few minutes to make sure most of his boxes are constnatly being exploded pointlessly by minions.


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Geekweezul

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Necks:
For a Shaco main player, you don't seem to understand your own champion very well.

Has it ever occurred to you that Shaco doesn't have to be played as AP on Dominion? Even if Shaco's boxes were modified for Dominion, he is still an assassin with an entire kit that utilizes AD.

AP Shaco is not the norm; it's the anomaly. Always has been. And AP Shaco strangely works on Dominion only because of how his boxes interact with the game mode and map through anti-fun mechanics that are poisonous to Dominion. Modify Shaco's boxes on Dominion and the problem is solved, with no casualties. It's as simple as that.

It is only a matter of time before Riot responds with champion-specific changes for Dominion. If Riot is truly serious on balancing Dominion for ranked and make it a tournament-worthy map, it's not a question of if, but when.


An anomaly? When three of skills scaled off of pure ap until VERY recently, you're calling it an anomaly? Get with it, bro.

@OP

Shacos boxes only last 90 seconds each. Ignore the tower he's stacking boxes on. Go get the others.

Chain fearing is very luck-based. I'm sure you only choose to remember the times you do get chain feared though, and let the times only one box activates and you get away with near full hp conveniently escape your memory. It's what people do when they're upset.

No, I don't main shaco. Just thought I would throw that in here before you use it as a crappy excuse to negate arguments. but you already have your mind made up, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

Just learn how to counter, not complain.


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Basist

Senior Member

10-26-2011

You know how to beat AP Shaco? Ignore the boxes that he places, don't chase him unless you know you can kill him, and most importantly have a champion with a range ability to destroy boxes. Or run with someone, have one of you pop the nest then quickly wipe them out.....it's not hard.


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Psi21

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Necks:
For a Shaco main player, you don't seem to understand your own champion very well.

Has it ever occurred to you that Shaco doesn't have to be played as AP on Dominion? Even if Shaco's boxes were modified for Dominion, he is still an assassin with an entire kit that utilizes AD.

AP Shaco is not the norm; it's the anomaly. Always has been. And AP Shaco strangely works on Dominion only because of how his boxes interact with the game mode and map through anti-fun mechanics that are poisonous to Dominion. Modify Shaco's boxes on Dominion and the problem is solved, with no casualties. It's as simple as that.

It is only a matter of time before Riot responds with champion-specific changes for Dominion. If Riot is truly serious on balancing Dominion for ranked and make it a tournament-worthy map, it's not a question of if, but when.


Not really...

I use AP Shaco in SR too. No ... I don't sit in bushes stacking boxes. I actually burst down carries in seconds. But so few AP Shaco run with DFG and/or use it correctly... or know how to pop a BV with BC. (But that is in SR not dominion...)

Shaco's kit is not just AD it is both.

Deceive does not care about the amount of AD or AP you have. Don't believe me load up a practice game and play straight AP Shaco at the end of game look at largest crits.

JitB - AP

Shiv - (+0.5 AD) + ( 1:1 ratio on AP) + base damage

Clown - uses your AD/crit when attacking and uses your 1:1 AP ratio when it explodes
(use deceive and hallucinate in a group they will swarm your clone you will remain stealth)

Auto attack ... use AD/crit items or if AP use Lichebane

I have to see how this works since I play AP Shaco but I believe a Qsash could allow a player to run through the middle of Windmill without the Fear problem and could ruin all and any boxes setup. That and merc treads never hurt.


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Danmal

Senior Member

10-26-2011

Quote:
Psi21:
I have to see how this works since I play AP Shaco but I believe a Qsash could allow a player to run through the middle of Windmill without the Fear problem and could ruin all and any boxes setup. That and merc treads never hurt.


I believe every box sets the fear off again making this idea pretty worthless.

An easy way of 'balancing' AP shaco for dominion is to just prevent someone from being feared by a jitb for 5-10 seconds after the first fear. That doesn't ruin his flavour/playstyle but also prevents situations where your characters wanders around a jitb nest for 5 seconds.