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Dominion: Why do many SR players not like it?

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Xenzodiac

Member

10-25-2011

Dominion is strangely more chaotic yet more boring to me. It seems to require less finesse and somehow a pug team apparently fails even harder on Dominion than SR, but that's just within my limited experience on a separate account.


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McMaster

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Quote:
Geekweezul:
Using the map to see what enemies are doing is map awareness. The fact that you can see more is more reason to use your map. People are not yelling out mias.

When someone isn't on the minimap, you're not using map awareness to figure out where they are...you're using intuition and personal experience.

I can say that it's easier to tell where someone is going in CS of how much is shown on the minimap...but that just means you are using the minimap more often, or at the very least just as much as you would in SR.

Ok, I agree with you on champions being built and balanced around SR, but that just doesn't deter me from feeling that Dominion is a viable gamestyle. Does it still need work? Yeah. Does SR? Yeah.


I don't think we disagree on point 3, I just think we're defining it differently. When I think of map awareness it encompasses more than just what the title implies. It includes things like good warding, watching lanes, understanding how they think, how they'll react to you missing, etc. etc.

It's different on CS. You kind of just glance at the map and know a greater majority of what's going on in the game. Unlike on SR, where glancing at the map gives you a little information, but your understanding of the game can help you fill in the gaps.

And on point 4, I think this was a misunderstanding. It sounded, to me, like you were saying that League was made around Dominion and not SR and I was like "Da ****?"


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Herby20

Senior Member

10-25-2011

A big reason I don't play it that often is it is even more reliant on your team than SR. And I think most of us can agree that there are a lot of LoL players who aren't exactly bright.


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Mattrellen

Senior Member

10-25-2011

For me, I like SR more than CS for a few reasons.

1. Laning is gone. Laning is a way of fighting your enemy without fighting your enemy. You can zone, last hit, fire skill shots to discourage their last hitting, call for ganks, lay wards, etc. to gain an advantage that will carry you though the rest of the game.

Jumping right into team fights is like turning the marathon into the 100m. You lose a lot of what you can do in all that time leading up to the end.

2. Tactics are less important on CS. Strategy is more important, because the long term is really all that matters, but points recover and can be retaken, while on SR, except for the nexus turrets, a damaged turret is damaged forever. Short term view must be taken, and sometimes snap decisions are vital to the outcome of the game.

It's like a game of chess where you can get your pawns back after you lose them, protecting what you have becomes less important, so tactics is less important.

3. SR has many different objectives, and most have a very different value. On CS, you have 5 points that can make you win, 1 relic that you can't even fight over, since it is team specific, and that's it. SR has nexus, turrets/inhibs, baron, dragon, blue buffs, and red buffs. Those different levels of objectives and what they give you, as a team as well as an individual, make SR a deeper gameplay experience.

It's like reading a book without a plot twist, there's nothing to really vary the experience or make you really think.


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PoisonedTea

Senior Member

10-25-2011

no its fine


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Stormgald

Senior Member

10-25-2011

Quote:
ActionButlerGO:
EDIT 3: I'd like to give a sincere thanks to everyone posting in this thread for keeping the discussion on topic and civil. I had a question, you guys are answering it, and everything has been kept pretty tame.

So, while I'm waiting (again) for my data to process, I thought I'd ask the question that has been nagging at me for a while.

As SR players, why do you not like Dominion?

My primary thought is that, everyone here came here for SR. That was the initial draw so why switch now? If that is the case, though, I don't get why people feel the need to add such virulence to their Dominion commentary that I frequently see. When the conversations remain civil, though, I've heard a ton of different answers to this question, but the three that really floor me are poor balance, low skill requirements, and boring game play.

Poor balance is probably the most frequent, which I kind of get, but I still don't see. Lots of folks just disregard Dominion saying you only see Rammus, Jax, Akali, Shaco, Poppy, or Heimer over and over again because they are so OP. Well, until last night, I hadn't seen Rammus in two weeks. Jax has been a no-show for close to a week. Are they OP? Well, yes, if you know how to play them they are very easy to get a win with on Dominion. If you don't though, you become an instant liability. I've seen more people play Jax and Akali and end up with **** scores than I have seen end up carrying the game. Rammus is great for disrupting, but throw some thornmail on, take some CC, and he becomes a silly turtle-looking guy who just rolls his way into unwinnable fights really really quickly. Add to the fact that, now that we know that these are strong picks on Dominion, people are now learning how to fight them, so they do not run away with games nearly as easily as they are made out to.

Now... are they OP if the player knows how yo use them? Yeah, probably. But, is that not the case on SR? How many "Akali OP, nerf now", "Cait needs nerf now", "OMG Skarner godmode after buff" threads pop up on GD every day? So, honestly, what's the difference?

The skill requirement is, perhaps, the one argument that I can actually agree to. Is Dominion more casual than SR? Absolutely. Was it meant to be? ...Maybe? Is that terrible, though? Keep in mind, though, this is said without acknowledging the completely different skills required to excel in Dominion. SR demands last hitting, patience, coordination, good teamfighting skills, etc. Dominion requires the ability to adapt to unexpected developments, smart use of sustainability, tactical use of minion pushing, good teamfighting skills, etc. Does playing Dominion make you a worse SR player? Yeah, probably. I know I've had to get back into last hitting mode when I switch back to SR, but it has also made a **** of a lot better at teamfighting and adapting my builds to suit the situation.

The boring argument may be the one that confuses me the most, though. Now, take this with a grain of salt, since I'm new to the genre, but it seems that so much of the typical SR game is already decided before the game even starts that a lot of the actual game play is mechanical repetition. The current metagame seems to rule over every early game decision in terms of who to ban, what types of champs to choose, who takes what lane, when to gank, etc. I have, honestly, read threads on this forum where players have described, in detail, the first several minutes of completely hypothetical SR games stating that, that's how it would go because that's how the game goes.

That just doesn't sound fun to me. I understand that that is how some people here gauge skill, but I would, personally, much rather play a game where things are much more open to improvisation. The Dominion version of the above SR example is, obviously, four top (one stop for mid) and one bot. After that, though, everything seems much more fluid than the typical SR game. There are windmill pushes, bot pushes, ninja mids, and any combinations of the above.



tl;dr: Why do SR players not like Dominion?

EDIT: It hasn't been brought up yet, but, for what it's worth, I really, REALLY do like SR. It does have a more tactical feel to it, but I suppose I just see SR and Dominion as two games that compliment one another and not two that compete.

EDIT 2 (copied from page 4): Alright, from a number of the responses, a thought just occurred to me.

How many veteran SR players consider League to be synonymous with SR? As in, Summoners Rift IS League of Legends.

Perhaps this is my biggest problem since, being a new player, I'm looking at League as an umbrella under which there is SR, TT, and CS.


I played some Dominion. It just doesn't seem as skill driven as SR.

I played with Teemo on SR, and I tried him on Dominion. And it is just so cheesy to me to build a complete high speed build, and be able to cheese run to tower to tower and take them.

I like the quickness of dominion, but, currently it just isn't as fun as SR for me.


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IS1ebe60507d910496d5f37

Senior Member

10-25-2011

I don't like Dominion for one simple reason: I see it requiring just as much team coordination, just of a different sort, yet it is even more fast paced.

Allow me to explain myself. I play a lot of fighting games. I love me some fighting games. One of the things that bugs me about MOBAs (despite how much I enjoy them) is that I have to rely on my team to win. On SR the pace of the game is much more slow compared to Dominion, making it more forgiving when you make mistakes because you probably won't be punished for it instantly

The opposite is true on Dominion. If you mess up on Dominion the punishment comes very quickly and very harshly. Riot took the level of punishment in fighting games and put it into a game that requires a team, making 'carrying' all but impossible.

It drives me mad.


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Kittyrina

Senior Member

10-25-2011

I just don't like the pacing of Dominion, all the free levels and free gold. Or how quick the games are.

I like the longer SR games the most. I wasn't a fan of them trying to shorten SR matches, or balance their dynamic IP gains around short games. When either team surrenders at 20 minutes, that game was a disappointment for me. The same if a dominion game only lasts 20 minutes or so.


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Soulshox

Senior Member

10-25-2011

The only thing I like dominion for is it's a change of a game after playing hours of ranked or normals, also it's fun to **** around once in a while.

Though most of the time I play is when my friends wanna play or if I only have like 30 mins so I play dominion instead.


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zeltadude

Junior Member

10-25-2011

dominion was more fun for me at start, now that you see the successful strat its boring

it's basically 1) pick an OP champ 2) cap 3 points 3) turtle whole game and only go offensive if you are 100% sure you will win fight or if its otherwise necessary to win