Teemo is annoying

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Seal Clubberz

Junior Member

10-24-2011

Allow me preface this by saying I am not a competitive player, but I would love to make an attempt when my schedule permits it.

I read a lot of forums (because I can actually do that at work) and from what I read, Teemo is somewhere around a tier 3 champ. I really enjoy playing him on dominion. His play style is very enjoyable. I'm just wondering if anyone has an opinion on what specifically makes him such a low tier? Is there anything that could bring him up to a tier 1 or 2 champion? Are his mechanics just not suitable enough for Dominion to ever see him shine?

Also, can teams make tier 3 champs work in high elo games or am I eventually looking at getting used to the FOTM champ every patch/expansion.

Thanks.

(is this worthy of a new thread?)


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Sazdek

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Senior Member

10-24-2011

he's a lower tier because he's not really a hard carry like most ranged AD (with an AP alternative). He's like a mix of support and ranged and assassin.

when he's fed he can go toe to toe with -almost- anyone and demolish them, problem is getting fed. I'd personally place him at tier 2 overall but that's me.


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Seal Clubberz

Junior Member

10-24-2011

Is the teemo that you place at tier 2 AS/Hybrid teemo? How do you feel about CDR/AP Teemo?


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KaXaSA

Senior Member

10-24-2011

just to point out, dmg wise:
one lv2 jitb + 4 hits > lv1 mushroom;
one lv5 jitb + 4 hits > lv2 mushroom;
two lv5 jitbs + 3 hits each > lv3 mushroom;


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Seal Clubberz

Junior Member

10-24-2011

That's a great point to make, KaXaSA.

Things to keep in mind about mushrooms: They have longer ward length meaning you can have vision on more of the map. Not to mention, they have a greater vision than JitB.

Would you happen to know the damage difference between a DFG + Shiv burst as apposed to a DFG + Blinding shot burst? Also consider teemos auto attack ability. He can do a lot more damage than AP shaco if left unchecked.

The real difference (I am finding. feel free to correct me with your opinion) between Teemo and Shaco isn't JitB vs Shrooms or Shiv vs Blinding Dart. Its all about Deceive vs Move Quick. Decieve is so much better of an escape. For two very fragile champs, that's where I feel the ground is lost.

I am obviously speaking in terms of AP.


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KaXaSA

Senior Member

10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seal Clubberz View Post
hey have a greater vision than JitB..
jitb > mushrooms.

Sight Range:
Sight Ward: 1100
Jitbs: 700 (estimate)
Mushrooms: 425 (estimate)

people always call mushrooms wards/mini-wards.. but they have a really small sight range.

The only advantages that the mushrooms have over jitbs are:
A- Duration:
Jitbs 90 sec
Mushrooms 10min

B-Ammo system
Teemo can store 3 mushrooms.

you could argue about the slow but imo fear is as good if not better because it's works like a mini-stun/silence you can't control your champion nor use skills/auto-attack..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seal Clubberz View Post
Would you happen to know the damage difference between a DFG + Shiv burst as apposed to a DFG + Blinding shot burst.
2Shiv
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Range: 625
Magic Damage: 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 (+1.0 per ability power) (+0.5 per bonus attack damage)

Blind
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Range: 680
Magic Damage: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+0.8 per ability power)

so both got 8 sec cd.

blind range > shiv range (not by much)

damage with 100 ap at lv5:
2shiv- 200 + 1 x 100 = 300
blind- 260 + 0.8 x 100 = 340

not a huge dfference but dmg wise blind is better.

btw i'm not sure if the shiv dmg scale with [ap AND ad] or if it's [ap OR ad]
if it's [ap AND ad] i would need to add at least his base damage..

i agree with you about the escape mechanisms, deceive is obviously FAR better than move quick and that's not arguable


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Seal Clubberz

Junior Member

10-24-2011

Oh, my bad. I must have had them reversed. thank you for the correction.


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FDru

Senior Member

10-24-2011

A JitB needs to hit 3 times to do as much damage as a shroom (actually, they have a slightly better AP ratio over 3 hits so they will do much more at higher AP levels). They hit 10 times before they expire.

You know how much damage shrooms do. Multiply that by 3x. Put it on a shorter cooldown.

IMO, the comparison of shrooms to JitB is a big deal. JitB are vastly better in all categories except for duration.


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KaXaSA

Senior Member

10-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
A JitB needs to hit 3 times to do as much damage as a shroom (actually, they have a slightly better AP ratio over 3 hits so they will do much more at higher AP levels). They hit 10 times before they expire.

You know how much damage shrooms do. Multiply that by 3x. Put it on a shorter cooldown.

IMO, the comparison of shrooms to JitB is a big deal. JitB are vastly better in all categories except for duration.
actually it's 4x.. mushroom poison duration is 4 seconds (confirmed just did a custom game to test)

but you're right about jitbs > mushrooms.

when i said this:

Quote:
at lv2 jitbs > lv1 mushroom dmg.
lv5 jitb > lv2 mushroom dmg...
and since you can stack jitbs with 2 jitbs lv5, if they hit the target 3 times (each) > lv3 mushroom.
the logic behind it was:


Jitbs lv2

Magic Damage: 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 (+0.25 per ability power) per hit
4 hits. Why only 4 hits? because depending on champion movement speed / luck (fear) he wont sit there and take all the damage and to be fair jitbs wont hit more than:
5 (max duration in seconds while firing) x 1.359 (jitb attack speed) = 6,795 times <- WRONG jitb can hit the target 9 times (wiki is wrong about this, jitb stay alive for about 6,6 seconds and can hit 9 times if you don't run away nor destroy it)

with 100 ap:
55 + 0.24 x 100 = 79 x 4 = 316
-----------------------------------------------------------

Mushrooms lv1

Magic Damage Per Second: 50 / 100 / 150 (+0.2 per ability power)
poison duration: 4 seconds so it's that ^ x4

with 100 ap:
50 + 0.2 x 100 = 70 x 4 = 280
-----------------------------------------------------------


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Seal Clubberz

Junior Member

10-24-2011

While I feel as though you are all correct in regards to JitB Vs Mushrooms, and really appreciate all the feedback (especially KaXaSA). I still feel the only huge difference is deceive.

Yes,I can't argue with the math. JitB does more damage. On the other hand I feel as though amazing aspects about teemo's shrooms are being looked over. The ward duration may not be a huge deal, but it is something to take into regard. What about the fact that Teemo can store shrooms? I realize the goal in dominion is to not die, but assume you do. Things happen. Or, for that matter, assume the small instances of a team fight or a lane being pushed.You have enough ammunition to repopulate a key area afterward and that's not something to look over.

I don't know why I am trying to make an argument for Teemo Vs Shaco. I'd be arguing against the whole community. I know Shaco is a better choice for map control/defense. I am just tired of my team mates saying "what the **** teemo" at the champion select screen. I want to improve my playing of teemo and in order to do that, I need to understand where he is all the points where he is weak.


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