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[Guide] Bull-dozing with Alistar

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Degini

Senior Member

12-03-2009

To the top. I'd like to hear thoughts on Alistair since the patch


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nicosharp

Senior Member

12-06-2009

he is a lot tougher to play well now. Since the patch I've lost 75% of my games with Alistar due to two things, opponents with Cleanse (counters all damage and stun from Pulverise and headbutt), and the reduced range on flash.

He is still a good character, and benefits a bit more from this build now then a cooldown build cause of the skills seem less important than your damage output.


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Tactorin

Senior Member

12-07-2009

I would like some insight from some people on Alistar too since the patch.

I have been having trouble with Alistar since the patch. Cleanse really ruins quite a lot for him, and the game times are very low now, so he cannot afford...well really anything. I would like to keep playing him, but I'm really at a loss to what makes him very useful anymore.


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nicosharp

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Alistar has lost almost all usefulness now as a initiator in team fights. Now that Cleanse is very popular, they just pop it if you try to engage. This leaves Alistar open to get raped as they will either not be stunned, or not be headbutted, and are free to beat you pretty hard standing right next to you. Because of all of this and the reduced radius of flash, alistar has lost his credibility as a initiator support tank.

He does not live as long, when opposing teams can get deathfire's grasp, which is a popular item. Also there is less need to build him as a tank, because initiating is so hard, so if you build him otherwise, he is a squishy waiting for ultimate cooldown.

He can not push towers as quickly because he lacks the ability to wipe creeps quickly, and teams are made up of full pushers. There are better pushers in the game, that can out push and out damage Alistar over time, and they are the meta. Alistar can not compete with these champions. Some examples are:

Sivir - greater movement, can quickly wipe minions, is better as a team support as AOE aura does more than a cleansed pulverise
TF - He can spam wildcard wiping lanes, and gate to the next. No one can keep up with his mobility, and given the towers low hp now, he is one of the best tower pushers in the game. I recently saw a TF and Sivir running Promote+rally and it was very difficult to keep up with.

My favorite champion pre-patch is now my least favorite champion. I was able to significantly support my team pre-patch, with positioning and initiating fights, I was at about 80% win/loss ratio with Alistar, and that was about 50-60 games. Now after the patch, with about 20 games on Alistar, im at about a 80% loss ratio. I fail to support my teams and initiate, due to summoner skills, lane mobility of the other team, and Alistars overall lack of ability to push a tower that does more damage when it is being defended by aoe snare, like morgana. I would say Alistar is now bottom-tier, and sadly I think I need to stop playing him if I want to enjoy this game at any competitive level, or frankly, if I want to win.


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Slide

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Quote:
nicosharp:
Alistar has lost almost all usefulness now as a initiator in team fights. Now that Cleanse is very popular, they just pop it if you try to engage. This leaves Alistar open to get raped as they will either not be stunned, or not be headbutted, and are free to beat you pretty hard standing right next to you. Because of all of this and the reduced radius of flash, alistar has lost his credibility as a initiator support tank.

He does not live as long, when opposing teams can get deathfire's grasp, which is a popular item. Also there is less need to build him as a tank, because initiating is so hard, so if you build him otherwise, he is a squishy waiting for ultimate cooldown.

He can not push towers as quickly because he lacks the ability to wipe creeps quickly, and teams are made up of full pushers. There are better pushers in the game, that can out push and out damage Alistar over time, and they are the meta. Alistar can not compete with these champions. Some examples are:

Sivir - greater movement, can quickly wipe minions, is better as a team support as AOE aura does more than a cleansed pulverise
TF - He can spam wildcard wiping lanes, and gate to the next. No one can keep up with his mobility, and given the towers low hp now, he is one of the best tower pushers in the game. I recently saw a TF and Sivir running Promote+rally and it was very difficult to keep up with.

My favorite champion pre-patch is now my least favorite champion. I was able to significantly support my team pre-patch, with positioning and initiating fights, I was at about 80% win/loss ratio with Alistar, and that was about 50-60 games. Now after the patch, with about 20 games on Alistar, im at about a 80% loss ratio. I fail to support my teams and initiate, due to summoner skills, lane mobility of the other team, and Alistars overall lack of ability to push a tower that does more damage when it is being defended by aoe snare, like morgana. I would say Alistar is now bottom-tier, and sadly I think I need to stop playing him if I want to enjoy this game at any competitive level, or frankly, if I want to win.


Ive got to agree. I main Alistar and Im pretty good with him. He has always been a support tank and his success relied completely on your teamates taking advantage of your Pulverize + Headbutt combo to get you assists. The new cleanse has indeed made this harded. It has come to the point where I ignore people who have chose cleanse as chances are, trying to engage them will lead to nothing.

I would like to say that cleanse has also made me a much better tank. Cleanse + Ghost + Ult + Stun + headbutt is a ****-load of tools to help you stay alive. I can not even begin to calculate just how many times ive gotten out of the most rediculous situations (rush in to 5 man gank squad to let 2 teamates get away and manage to get away myself. Of course, he needs all his abilities available to do this, but no one can get in, hold up the team and get back out as well as alistar can with those summoner skills.

For anyone who wants to know how its done:

Headbutt closest chasing champion backwards (this also gives you a speed boost to get in, hoepefully suprising the enemies) pulverize for the stun, activate ghost and run. Wait for first stun or slow to hit you, pop ult, wait for follow up CC, pop cleanse and laugh all the way to the bank....err fountain.

All that being said, it doesnt make him a phenominal champion. He could REALLY use a buff. Hes pretty good at tanking, seting up kills and saving teamates, but really, lots of champs can do any of those things while being more useful otherwise.

In any case, my point is, if your playing alistar, you should REALLY have a lanemate who knows how to play with alistar, does good damage and has a stun or a slow. Ignore people who choose cleanse and pray your lane mate gets those kills so you have some assist gold (another thing that really hurt alistar, less assist gold) to spend on much needed items. The good thing is, Alistar works pretty well with just a chalice, ninja tabi and sheen. Of course, I always question if this is because hes just not powerful enough to really be helped by a bunch of items. Seems silly i know, but its true.


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Killingtime

Junior Member

12-12-2009

I've done relatively well early-game going more offensive. I've realized that while being a heal-machine is good, in those 5v5 fights it's not worth much. So bye bye innervating locket. Here's my mix:

Build:
0/9/21

Runes:
Right now I'm using Armor Pen quints, and a mix of armor and crit %. As I get more IP I'm going to add more crit %

Items:
Chalice->Boots->Sheen->Fiendish Codex->Stinger->Nashor's Codex

For boots, I either go Berzerker's or Mercury if they have a lot of CC/slow, or ninja if I'm getting smacked around and they have a lot of physical.

Build:
1. Pulverize
2. Either Roar or Headbutt, depending on if my lane partner and I are at full health
3. Roar or Headbutt
4. Headbutt (Roar if we're being pushed back)
5. Pulv or Headbutt if I took Roar
6. Unbreakable Will
7. All skills to lvl 2

From here I play it by ear, depending on how well my lane is going. I find that Roar at lvl 3 is sufficient, and I try to even out pulv and headbutt. It really depends on if I needthe additional healing from Raor at the time or not.

I find I'm using UW as an attack boost against champions as much as I do against towers. Don't be afraid to one-two someone you know you can't kill, getting them low puts the fear of god in them.


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tCOperator

Senior Member

12-28-2009

Unfortunately, over the last 3 days, I've seen nothing but IAS and ranged opponents, and playing Alistar, I simply can't compete. It gotten to the point that using a variation of this build will allow me to overrun the average player, but now that teams are running 5-man gank-squads starting @ lvl 6-8, and over-running lanes, which renders Alistar largely useless. He doesn't have the attack speed or movement speed to truly stop any of the champs that make up the bulk of current teams.
More on that at the bottom...

At level 25, I've got all my marks stacked to armour penetration and my seals stacked for magic resist. I'm starting to sub in +static mana into my glyphs, because I simply don't need +150 mana in the end game, which is what the tier 3 glyphs for +mana/level have given me, thus far. I'm finding that +static mana is actually what I need more of, in the early game.

My standard items are:
Philosopher's Stone
Berzerkers' Greaves
Sheen
Atma's or an item specific to the opposing teams makeup (Wit's End, etc.)
items for hitting still harder

The sad thing is, with almost every team I've faced recently sporting champs with maxed IAS, Alistar is basically un-playable, even when I'm playing in a 5-man premade, using vent. He's great fun, and I've even lead games in kills, but it remains almost impossible to respond to a Sivir/TF/Udyr/Tristana/Yi running a 1-trick pony build that requires nothing but IAS and a little bit of life steal.

Realistically, I think there needs to be some examination of how many champs are just stacking IAS and ignoring anything else. It's seriously got to the point that any time I see a team with any combination of Udyr, Yi, Tristana, or Twitch, I know that the opposing team is simply playing for E-Peen Extension, because they're obviously not playing to win by inherent being better players. They're just planning to abuse the hell out of the inherent overwhelming strength of attack speed, and get a little E-Chubbie, because their broken champs won them another game.

Gods' forbid that anyone might want to play a champ because they play it well, and against a normal opposing team, they might actually enjoy a challenging game, win OR lose. It's so much easier to just play the broken champions, so they can win. Again and again, and again.


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Slide

Senior Member

12-29-2009

Yup, Alistar really isnt a wise choice.

I would REALLY like to see him buffed. Hes **** cool, but youd have to be a fool to take him at the moment.

The cleanse problem is gone, but overall he is lacking. Im surprised he hasnt seen any love in any of the patches.

I switched over to playing Sivir. Not as tanky, but 100 times more powerful and useful. Puswhing pretty much comes down to wiping out creep waves these days. IF you can do that, you can push a tower. Add in the AoE atack speed buff, and Alistar has got absolutely NOTHING on her.

Hell he doesnt have anything on ANYONE. Alistar players need to start making a comotion in the forums so he gets some much needed attention.

EDIT: With the buff to attack speed runes (150% more powerful) I find it better to use those then armor pen. You can easilly get close to 20% and it makes a HUGE diffrence. Makes last hitting a LOT easier and gets that gold rolling in that much faster. Id recommended giving it a shot. It wont fix how weak he is, but I find it better then armor pen now.


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nicosharp

Senior Member

12-29-2009

There is nothing wrong with Alistar, but it does require modified play and build. He has some hard counters that are typically ran in most team comps now at high ELO, so your team comp and build will determine the game - Movement speed on Alistar is also crucial at higher level play, and is something he has always lacked.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=36784


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Squawl

Senior Member

01-21-2010

just lost 7 in a row with the mallet + atma combo followed with dodge runes and boots finalized with the 0/21/9 masteries.

im here to throw my support for alistar even though ive lost so many. I had won 4 in a row before this and i attribute the broken match making system and elo for these losses, not alistar. my last game was against a full 30s team, while i was stuck with ppl whom had no concept of team fights. having only 5 deaths the entire 70 minute game i strongly encourage players to utilize this versatile 'wrecking ball'.

read this guide, make minor adjustments as needed, and have fun.