How to *help* prevent unnecessary losses.(elo hell) V2

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10-18-2011

@mdigibou
#1 this would be hard for supports that don't heal as much as other supports, or don't heal at all. They would have to make different personal score generation based on the champion. I mean, riot considers teemo and lux supports; additionally at high elos people use fiddlestick, annie, and gangplank as supports. Leona isn't considered a support yet people play her to fill that slot on bottom(wards+cv+gives up cs to carry). Points for laying wards, I'm this can work if it required enemies to be sighted(so they just can't spam wards in fountain). And that only in fog of war so they just can't place ward in lane to gain tons of points. I mean, I'm sure this could eventually be worked out, there are just a lot of loopholes. The jungler won't want to give blue to mid cause they would want to keep their points from it. I mean this whole personal score makes the team game more individualistic.

My other thread got up to ten pages if you would like to sift through and look for the comments of people smacking down the proposition. I mean personally, I would like Riot to try anything to fix unnecessary losses:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=249832

If you make a thread, I will include a link in my thread to your thread. Because it seems as though your idea would take a lot of energy to implement, especially since you said they would need a committee to iron it out.


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mdigibou

Senior Member

10-18-2011

the amount of points per ward could be adjustable sothat its justNOT effective to spam wards except at super low personal score amounts. As stated before, the system CAN work. it would definately take a fine tuning. If the idea took off i would definately like to be part of the fine tuning process. giving a buff to a player could grant amount of points as receiving a buff, thus making the whole teams personal score greater as they work towards a team objectie. This makes team play actually MORE viable as without the jungler, mid wont get those buff points the would have had, and the jungle could keep them but then they likely lose more games so they dont receive the multiplier.
any team-buff ability could grant points. Anything that buffs an ally is already tracked. For example, janna's shield. bam bonus points.

obviously certain champs benefit from this sytem more than others, but its just that, a system. It requires fine tuning to exactitude which i havent had time or enough data to sift through to figure those out.

if anyone knows where i can get ahold of the replays of the games the pros played on the most recent patch at IEM so i can use those numbers as a baseline to help design a workable system?


and the people smacking down the proposition simply dont understand why ELO is a bad choice for a solo queue in a team based game. Point blank, the system isn't designed for what its being used and this elo hell you feel is the outcome of that.


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NoOtherDestiny

Senior Member

10-18-2011

I look at the penalty 2 ways. The time penalty is to compensate for the time of the other 9 players you wasted by dodging (which in my opinion should actually be higher to start with). The ELO hit is to prevent people gaming the ranked system. If I was some sort of ELO ***** who wanted the highest ELO, and had to play ranked solo or duo, then I'd dodge every game (no matter the time penalty) to get one that looks close enough to a 100% win, then proceed to win the majority of my games endlessly increasing my ELO.

I'd say, if you were dead serious about the game, and been good and maybe playing for money/tournaments, then you'd have a team to play with and not just yourself or duo. If ELO hit is removed, people will definitely game the system and you'd run into those players who won't be as good.


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mdigibou

Senior Member

10-18-2011

a game isnt won in the matchmaking screen. I've been outplayed in game where our eamcomp was superior. Your theory would take arbitrarily long, and isnt even viable. Sorry brosef.


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1UPedU

Senior Member

10-18-2011

^ the elo system isnt viable either and the fact that it waits to restart the qeue when someone is D/C shows the cureent system makes it needlessly longer also; if u read its not a rating of skill just ur chance of winning a game; no one seems to realize that the elo system currently isnt even or fair at all, you can go play the best support ever in a game and get nothing for it if ur team picked 4 carries; even if u assist for every kill ur team got and didn't die once

also why not implement IP bans on the people who leave/afk in a ranked game?(in either the current or the theoretical system)


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1UPedU

Senior Member

10-18-2011

in terms of people gaming system for personal score why did they implement it in domion then?

/sign


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10-18-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOtherDestiny View Post
I look at the penalty 2 ways. The time penalty is to compensate for the time of the other 9 players you wasted by dodging (which in my opinion should actually be higher to start with). The ELO hit is to prevent people gaming the ranked system. If I was some sort of ELO ***** who wanted the highest ELO, and had to play ranked solo or duo, then I'd dodge every game (no matter the time penalty) to get one that looks close enough to a 100% win, then proceed to win the majority of my games endlessly increasing my ELO.

I'd say, if you were dead serious about the game, and been good and maybe playing for money/tournaments, then you'd have a team to play with and not just yourself or duo. If ELO hit is removed, people will definitely game the system and you'd run into those players who won't be as good.
1: If I was one of those 9 people, I am glad that person dodged. I don't see why people make the "omg, time waste" argument when ranked is not for "instaplay omgbbq make me match now" gameplay. If a person feels things are imbalanced, let them opt out. I hate how we are forced to play with troll players because the threat of dodging wasting people's time. I would rather wait 5-10 minutes for another game than have to endure 20+ minutes of a torturing loss.

2: Gaming the system? Don't you mean using your brain to avoid stupid losses. If I see someone on my team who starts flaming and spamming in champion select chat, why should we be considered a team and have our elo on the line? As mdigibou said, it even good team compositions get stomped by weird ones; however the players should make the choice of whether they think the fight will be fair prior to staking their elo. The whole "gaming the system" will only work so far until you get into around 1400-1500, when 90% of the games have good team comps, yet you still find stupid team mates who explicate in chat that they are not teammate worthy (instaflame, retarded chat).


3: Tourney games are different from duo and solo. If I am not at the liberty to attend such an event, I wish to have the closest gaming experience to a tourney match in ranked queue.


Thank you for posting on my thread, NoOtherDestiny


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10-18-2011

@mdigibou, no matter how you change the matchmaking system, you can't cure stupid, you can just equip smart people with the ability to avoid the stupid people.


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IS1f48700f529fbcca97996

Senior Member

10-19-2011

@ mdigibou:
The latest tourney was IEM New York: http://iemnewyork.leagueoflegends.com/
There's also IEM Guangzhou, which was in the same month: http://iemchina.leagueoflegends.com/
Lastly, IEM Cologne, which was in August, but still useful to take notes from: http://iemgamescom.leagueoflegends.com/

Really like your suggestions, I would probably sign in with a few suggestions too.


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10-19-2011

bump


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