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@Xypherous: AD Itemization, Spell Vamp, and Atma's Impaler

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Vuther

Senior Member

10-19-2011

Quote:
WOB Jun:
How about an item for pure AD why not?

Sword of Time 3000G

BF Sword
Long Sword
935 gold recipe
stats: 80 AD
Unique Passive +2 AD per minute.

The reason why not pure AD mostly is because we don't want to add something for the AD carry item repetoire which is pretty much solid right now.


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1UPedU

Senior Member

10-19-2011

lol that caps at what bonus ad?


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2xHero

Recruiter

10-19-2011

Quote:
Ebonclaw:
I gave you a +1, though I feel your analysis was only partial.

Yes, AD items tend to give ancillary stats like IAS and Crit, which makes it hard to just stack AD. But also, the AP items that don't have things like Mana Regen and CDR tend to have things that make the champion more durable, HP/MR/Armor.

Physical Mages get double screwed, due to the relative inefficiency of stacking AD just for the sake of AD, AND the fact that a pure Physical Damage build is much more glass cannon, by necessity, than a pure Magic Damage build tends to be. The items are designed around the idea that if you magnify your AD through speed and crit, and then add some Lifesteal, THAT is your survivability. Creating Physical Casters without considering that the itemization was designed with a clear delineation between Attackers (Physical), and Casters (Magic), will create champs that just don't work very well. ESPECIALLY so when most of them are melee range, and will get crushed like a grape. A very sharp, spiky, dangerous, and yet so squishy and sweet grape.


I definitely agree. I briefly mentioned that having survivability on high tier AD items would be good on AD mages since the survivability also tends to be a turn-off to traditional carries.

I suggested that Entropy be enabled on classic and that Hexdrinker get an upgrade since those items have a small amount of health and magic resist, respectively. That is also why I suggest that Atma's be split into multiple items, including a health+AD item.


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clear world

Senior Member

10-20-2011

It would be the best bet to avoid having an AD item with both spell vamp and any armor/magic resistance item attached to it. If a champion is going attempt to grab any sustain, they should sacrifice going tanky for a while.

And also, spell vamp scales indirectly with how much armor and magic resistance you have. If a champion could sustain themselves well while being tanky, your option of killing them is very limited. So, the amount of spell vamp they would get from this item so be at a low while the cost of the item being high.

The main role this item is suppose to fill is 'sustain' for AD casters, and nothing else.

Here's my example:

Total cost: 2850 gold
50 AD
- 18% lifesteal
-Unique: 12% spell vamp
- Some weak passive can be added on as well


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SupremeDeity

Senior Member

10-20-2011

Insert name here:

3400G

80 AD
UNIQUE passive: 20% spellvamp
UNIQUE passive: Increases total damage by 10-15%
UNIQUE passive: Having this item makes you unable to crit.

Made out of BF sword, longsword, and some smaller new AD/spellvamp item that's somehwere around 1000 gold or something


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2xHero

Recruiter

10-21-2011

Quote:
clear world:
It would be the best bet to avoid having an AD item with both spell vamp and any armor/magic resistance item attached to it. If a champion is going attempt to grab any sustain, they should sacrifice going tanky for a while.

And also, spell vamp scales indirectly with how much armor and magic resistance you have. If a champion could sustain themselves well while being tanky, your option of killing them is very limited. So, the amount of spell vamp they would get from this item so be at a low while the cost of the item being high.

The main role this item is suppose to fill is 'sustain' for AD casters, and nothing else.

Here's my example:

Total cost: 2850 gold
50 AD
- 18% lifesteal
-Unique: 12% spell vamp
- Some weak passive can be added on as well


That is a good point, but I do not think that there would be too much problem with making a sustain/tanky item as long as it was clearly pointed to AD casters. AP casters and AD carries already have plenty of item sets that can give some tankiness, sustain, and damage. For carries, Atma's Impaler + Bloodthirster/Bilgewater Cutlass is one option. For AP casters, RoA/Rylai's + WotA. It would be very easy to make a set of items for AD casters, but the reason that I suggest making AD caster items partially tanky is to prevent making a super item for AD carries.

Allow me to clarify. In my opinion, every AD caster should be building Last Whisperer. This item gives so much Armor Pen, as well as 40 AD. An AD caster would want more AD, CDR, and spellvamp. Maybe a BF sword upgrade that gives 20% CDR and spell vamp would be the only new item needed. That would certainly fill all of the offensive needs for AD casters as well as have enough undesirable stats to AD carries.

I would like to see some tanky items that also appeal to AD casters, though. Since most of them need to be in melee range for much of their damage, having a little bit of tank stats helps. Maybe a Hexdrinker and reworked Atma's impalers is all that is necessary though. An AD+tenacity item would be pretty cool though.

Quote:
SupremeDeity:
Insert name here:

3400G

80 AD
UNIQUE passive: 20% spellvamp
UNIQUE passive: Increases total damage by 10-15%
UNIQUE passive: Having this item makes you unable to crit.

Made out of BF sword, longsword, and some smaller new AD/spellvamp item that's somehwere around 1000 gold or something

That is an interesting item, but I do not think that Riot will make an item with a negative stat. Maybe the last two parts could be combined into an active, though.

I also found the stats for the Atma's Impaler rework that was in the works a year ago.
* Atma's Impaler
o Recipe Changed to: Chain Vest + Health Crystal + 800 = 1975 total cost.
o Base Stats changed to 45 armor, 180 health from 45 armor, 18% critical strike.
o Unique Passive unchanged.

It didn't go through because Atma's fills too many roles as is - AD/armor, AD/crit, and HP->AD converter. I still think that something like this rework could be brought back if new items were created for the roles that Atma's currently fills.


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