Who is the best nuker?

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Kewww

Senior Member

10-13-2011

To get an idea of veigars power I just played a game as him that was 55 min long and at the end my q hit for 750, w for 1200 aoe and ult for 1500 + 80% ap of target plus other bonuses from items like spell vamp etc, 1v1 they couldn't touch me. We won with like 50-24 I think 5v5 game


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PvtJuice

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Annie's burst is a bit overrated. She is used mainly because she can stun enemies in her burst, not because of her raw damage.

Maokai has an absurdly high burst for a tanky champion, same with Cho'gath and Galio.

For those insta-kill burst champions, Veigar, LeBlanc, Poppy and Talon can all 1 shot an enemy. These 4 champions all have some sort of damage amplifier if I am correct, which makes them stronger than others and they're more of a "completely remove an enemy from the game" kind of champion. Like when I play Poppy, I choose the enemy Caitlyn to target the whole game and every team fight that Caitlyn will die instantly and contribute nothing to her team while I can rejoin the fight a few seconds later.

Anivia, Ryze and Cassiopeia are the champions I think of as sustained burst, meaning they dish out a lot of damage to begin with and can continue to deal that damage because of their short cooldowns.

LeBlanc doesn't per se fall off late game. She has some of the best scaling in the game. Not even Veigar's flat scaling competes. It's just that a large portion of her burst is Distortion, which is dangerous to use late game since you'll probably get hit with CC when you use it.


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Melogrunty

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Senior Member

10-14-2011

Annie is pretty beastly. She has no skillshots and can kill you in two hits after a Tibbers stun. I ignored Annie for the longest time but she's really good and her shiekld is great as well.


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The Spidermon

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Senior Member

10-14-2011

Veigar king nuker. Don't recommend him though


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Snorky420

Senior Member

10-14-2011

I want to put a vote in for Annie also. Her ability to stun with any of her spells, two being AoE, makes it so the enemy champ eats your WHOLE burst.. tibs, q, w, q ignite.

Other champs may have better damage, but it seems to me Annie's whole burst lands more often than any other. Like veigar, brand, anivia for example. All of them require a landed skillshot or more to guarantee landing all of their spells.


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Kittsy

Senior Member

10-14-2011

Rough values I came up with for damage over 4 seconds to a 2000 HP target with 0% CDR at level 18:

Akali: 1480+3.4AP+0.6AD
Alistar: 613+1.6AP (Wow, AP Alistar was nerfed even more than I thought...)
Amumu: 1061+2.9AP
Anivia: 1350+3.0AP
Annie: 1360+3.65AP
Brand: 1215+2.3 (+250+0.5 per extra ult bounce on the target, max of 1915+3.3)
Cassiopeia: 2780+7.4AP (8 Twin Fangs and two Noxious Blasts can theoretically be cast over 4 seconds. This might be a bit deceptively high).
Cho'gath: 580+1.7AP magic damage, 650+0.7AP true damage, 80+0.3 magic damage per attack.
Fiddlesticks: 2165+4.05 AP (4 seconds of that ult hurts a lot).
Galio: 1156+2.04AP
Jax: 520 + 1.7AP + 1.4AD + 210+0.7 every 3rd attack
Janna: 440+1.55 AP (Dear people who want to be Reginald: AP Janna is not a nuker, thank you.)
Irellia: 1060+2.5AP+3.4AD + 75 true damage per attack
Karma: 855+2.1AP
Karthus: 1950+4.0AP
Kennen: 1530+3.85AP
Kassadin: 920+2.4AP + 90+0.15AP per attack. (If starting with max Riftwalk Stacks, 3200+2.4AP. Good luck having the mana for that.)
Katarina: 1240+3.6AP+5.8AD + 288 True damage
Gragas: 975+2.4AP+0.66AD
Heimer: 1205+3.15AP
Leblanc:1317+3.76AP
Leona: 990+1.9AP
Lux: 1760+2.05AP (4 passive triggers, exactly 1000 base without any passive triggers.)
Malphite: 890+1.6AP+0.5 Armor
Malzahar: 2468.24+3.7AP
Maokai: 1430+2.7AP
Morgana: 1290+3.3AP
Mordekaiser: 1681+3.16AP+3.3AD
Nunu: 1400+3.5AP
Orianna: 1170+2.7AP
Poppy: 1099+1.96AP (Damage also coming from her ult increasing damage of DFG, Ignite, or other damage sources getting a boost from her ulti).
Rammus: 1080+2.2AP + 60+0.1Armor for each attack received.
Rumble: 2060+4.355AP (All in danger zone)
Ryze: 750+0.29Mana+1.55AP
Shaco: 1425.14+3.359AP+0.5AD (single JitB for the full 4 seconds)
Singed: 580+2.2AP
Sion: 600+2.0 AP
Skarner: 954+2.5AP+1.6AD
Sona: 600+1.5AP
Soraka: 570+1.55AP
Swain: 1153+3.68AP
Taric: 910+1.8AP
Tristana: 980+3.3AP
TF: 535+1.45AP (1 Stacked Deck hit).
Veigar: 1340+3.4AP+0.8 opponent's AP
Vladimir: 1250.6+1.783AP+7.5% bonus HP, increases by 205.2+0.513AP with max Tides of Blood stacks.
Xerath: 1330+3.1AP
Zilean: 640+1.8AP

Not perfect, but fairly accurate. Note that this doesn't take lots of things, like cooldowns, into account.


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Alysrazar

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Senior Member

10-14-2011

Veiger, and Kogmaw in my opinion.


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WillieStyle

Member

10-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PvtJuice View Post
Annie's burst is a bit overrated. She is used mainly because she can stun enemies in her burst, not because of her raw damage.

Maokai has an absurdly high burst for a tanky champion, same with Cho'gath and Galio.

For those insta-kill burst champions, Veigar, LeBlanc, Poppy and Talon can all 1 shot an enemy. These 4 champions all have some sort of damage amplifier if I am correct, which makes them stronger than others and they're more of a "completely remove an enemy from the game" kind of champion. Like when I play Poppy, I choose the enemy Caitlyn to target the whole game and every team fight that Caitlyn will die instantly and contribute nothing to her team while I can rejoin the fight a few seconds later.

Anivia, Ryze and Cassiopeia are the champions I think of as sustained burst, meaning they dish out a lot of damage to begin with and can continue to deal that damage because of their short cooldowns.

LeBlanc doesn't per se fall off late game. She has some of the best scaling in the game. Not even Veigar's flat scaling competes. It's just that a large portion of her burst is Distortion, which is dangerous to use late game since you'll probably get hit with CC when you use it.
This is what I'm looking for. The champion that completely remove an enemy from the game I'm finding that Annie's burst just isn't powerful enough for me. I tibbers stun/q/w/ and then it feels like a year before Q is up again and the enemy is already out of range and my slow ass bear can't catch them. Plus I find myself getting targeted 1st in team fights, so I have to waste money on armor and other stuff to stay alive. The range on bear is kinda small, so I have to put myself in harms way to use it. I'll have to read up on Poppy and Talon.

Keep the ideas coming!


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Melogrunty

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Senior Member

10-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieStyle View Post
This is what I'm looking for. The champion that completely remove an enemy from the game I'm finding that Annie's burst just isn't powerful enough for me. I tibbers stun/q/w/ and then it feels like a year before Q is up again and the enemy is already out of range and my slow ass bear can't catch them. Plus I find myself getting targeted 1st in team fights, so I have to waste money on armor and other stuff to stay alive. The range on bear is kinda small, so I have to put myself in harms way to use it. I'll have to read up on Poppy and Talon.

Keep the ideas coming!
Armor certainly isn't a waste. A Negatron Cloak (+48 Magic Resist for 740g) and Chain Vest (+45 Armor for 700g) are extremely gold efficient and won't delay your build by that much. You can even turn both of them into powerful caster items like Abysmal Scepter and Zhonya's Hourglass.

Out of all the mages, Annie is the easiest to burst someone down before they blink. There are other mages with higher theoretical damage outputs but that is assuming you will land all of your skillshots and/or they stay in range long enough to go through a rotation of several spells. Annie also has a built-in +50 Armor & MR Molten Shield (Her E spell) on a 30 second cooldown which, when used in combination with a Negatron or Chain Vest gives you about 100 Armor or 100 MR. So just by leveling E to rank 5 and using it when you need to, you are giving yourself 1440g for free.


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xwumbologistx

Member

08-26-2013

i just played a game where i was veigar going up against another veigar and i got my q so farmed i could kill the other veigar with just my R. he was pissed to say the least.


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