Personal Score - A Detriment to Dominion

First Riot Post
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Supreme1337

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think it's more important to reward players for making meaningful contributions to their team. Since defense is important, and unrewarded, these changes should go a good way to address that.
Defenders need MOAR gold!!! Champions should receive more gold for remaining close to allied points. The reason the hyper carries do so well is because the high initial gold gives them a boost to their first key items, and then they can just rack up kills for gold in fights. If you would give defenders gold you could balance this effect.


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Skilltestingman

Senior Member

10-13-2011

I like how people think kills don't matter. Isn't it easier to capture points with only two enemy champs alive?


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-13-2011
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarthorn View Post
I don't normally link to threads but in this case I will.

I would like to point you to a thread I recently made that clearly points out that in it's current form, the scoring system is a long margin off and needs more tweaks than the defence ones...

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1357694

I know you say it's a "rare" instance, but as you can see from the score differentiations, there is a massive disparity occuring in the more close matches that actually has the losing team winning in most statistics despite them losing.
I don't disagree here, though I think the analysis isn't totally accurate that it should all be done at once. I'd rather adjust it each patch a little so we can do it more accurately.


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Akai Tsuki

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think it's more important to reward players for making meaningful contributions to their team. Since defense is important, and unrewarded, these changes should go a good way to address that.
It's impossible for a computer. It can't judge what helped and what didn't. It suffers from the exact same problem as KDA on SR: boasting your own kills/score while neglecting the overall performance of your team. Not every game, but it happens.
A lot of actions that are actually much more beneficial for your team go by unrewarded. And it's not just defending points.

Yes, I am opposed to personal score. It's false and not representative of what REALLY is going on.


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Talistiir

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Member

10-13-2011

It'll never be perfect, but I do think defense needs to be rewarded slightly more. Whenever I'm on the losing team, I always know that everyone will single out the Bot guy since they almost inevitably have a low score and negative KDA... even though they may have held Bot pretty well while the rest of our team ran around like headless chickens trying to get kills and dying in the jungle.

Bot seems like a poisoned chalice now, like a sentence... "You, go bot".. ugh.

I've also had games where I come 4th overall in personal score, negative KDA but I feel like I was one of the deciding factors in the win because:
a) if I'm capping a tower with an ally, I'll peel off before completing the cap in order to go pressure undefended windmill (ally gets 40 points, I get 10, even if I killed the defender and started the cap) or
b) I'll defend a hopeless cause at windmill 1v3, do some damage and buy 15 seconds then have my team mates arrive, clean up (3 kills), then all cap the point getting 40 more points each. I get 0 points and a 20 second respawn (maybe 5 points for an assist if I'm lucky).
c) someone pings bot where 3 enemies are unopposed. Suddenly our entire team will rush off there, but I'll go put pressure on another enemy tower in order to draw them away
etc.

Basically, I don't give a **** about Personal Score but instead try to do what's best for the team. Maybe they should change it to Team Score and aggregate everyone's score?

After all, I just want to win the game, stats be ****ed.


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XaoGarrent

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think it's more important to reward players for making meaningful contributions to their team. Since defense is important, and unrewarded, these changes should go a good way to address that.
Morello, do not get us wrong here. Personal Score is a GREAT addition to the game, it just needs work. It's one of those things that will require careful tweaking over a long period of time, as is demonstrated by just about every FPSer that uses such a system, but it is worth the effort in the long run.

As silly as it may sound, having a shiny gold star next to your name is enough incentive for alot of people to shift their focus- and if the score system can be made to reflect meaningful contributions to winning the game- it could go a very long way to reducing the amount of frustration created when people on your team get frag happy instead of focusing on what wins the game.


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ElevenOfClubs

Senior Member

10-13-2011

The problem with rewarding defense is that sitting on an uncontested point is NOT a good strategy.

I've won more than one game by conceding the Windmill and focusing on holding the enemy bottom. A strategy that works really well when the enemy has someone camping the windmill (and not pushing minions), allowing your 5 champions to focus on contending with the 4 of their champions dealing with the contested points.

If they also push towards your top, they get minion kills (gaining gold and XP, becoming stronger), pressure the point generating the enemy minions (dividing opposing team focus), but are not rewarded in their personal score if the enemy reacts fast enough to prevent them from capping (or at least neutralizing) the point they're pressuring.

I do agree that personal score, while adding to the game, often does not accurately reflect personal contribution to the team and could use major tweaks.

I'd would go for slightly reducing base passive point defense reward and substantially increasing rewards for defending points that are pressured either by the presence of nearby enemy champions, or by enemy minions on the point.

For example adding 5-10 seconds to the amount of time it takes to tick points for defending a point, then accelerating the "tick timer" by a factor 1 + number of nearby enemy champions + 1 if there are enemy minions on the point (or something similar, I'm not good with the numbers of game design).


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Tuscars

Junior Member

10-13-2011

Please remove personal score points for kills that are away from attacking or defending points. I am tired of bad kids doing nothing but farming kills while we sit 3 capped because they won't help push a point or defend a point.


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Krom

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Just remove PS altogether.


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Ragels

Senior Member

10-13-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PriorityOne View Post
I'm not a big fan of a lot of these proposed changes to the score system.

Right now, the score system rewards running around the map, capturing points, and killing people. Essentially it rewards the elements in the game that make it fun. A lot of the proposed changes I read make it more rewarding to sit on a tower waiting for enemies to come. That is probably the least fun thing you can be doing in Dominion.

Instead of changing the score to make sitting on 3 towers and twiddling your thumbs more rewarding, Riot needs to make the reward for capturing more than 3 worth the risk so that the excitement doesn't slow down once you get 3.
The issue with that is that personal score doesn't mean anything. Rewarding players for what could potentially be a very bad decision isn't a good idea. As I stated, people are always trying to cap more than three points to raise their score, which very often leads to the enemy team gaining the advantage.

Defending isn't really boring at all. Holding three points when five people are trying to cap them is a pretty hefty task. The only "boring" part about defending is at the very beginning for whoever goes bottom, really. They have to sit there for a bit to see if the other bottom player decides to come try and cap it. Past that, there's almost always action at any given point.

As someone has pointed out in another thread, the best way to get the highest personal score is to essentially troll your own team into a loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I think it's more important to reward players for making meaningful contributions to their team. Since defense is important, and unrewarded, these changes should go a good way to address that.
I think the thing about this is that it's difficult to determine what defending is, and what simply getting killed near a point is. Rewarding someone for coming to aid a point under attack isn't bad, but that doesn't make personal score any less arbitrary.

At the end of the day personal score is pretty much meaningless, but since it's a new thing and so prevalent on the scoreboard people want to get their score high. A much better idea would be to have a list of things like caps, defends, breaks, etc. Things that actually show what you're doing, instead of some meaningless number.