Dominion sympathizes for losing teams. Rubberbanding, artificial "close games", etc.

First Riot Post
12345612 ... 22
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Necks

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaps View Post
I don't really understand this. The other team is not getting anything bonus that you are not getting - they simply get the same base exp and gold that you are getting - you will still have more gold/experience if you've killed them more or killed more creep.
Exactly. Even if you're losing, you're still constantly being rewarded with a lot of gold and exp by the system. You are not heavily punished for playing badly. So, even the very worst of worst players will still be given a full set of items and levels, even though they did nothing to deserve it. Again, it's the system that's artificially keeping bad players up in the match.

When a team is losing, the system babysits the losing team. Doesn't that bother anyone? I understand that statistically, this system will increase the amount of "close matches" that occur. But it's all artificially stimulated.

This is also the reason why hyper carry champions like Jax and Akali do so well on Dominion. No matter how badly they do, the system will still spoon-feed them with a full set of equipment, maximum levels, and allow them to excel in killing potential even if they didn't deserve it.

A Jax or Akali player has to play exceptionally well to achieve that hyper carry status on Summoner's Rift. On Dominion, they simply have to connect to the game and they are guaranteed to become hyper carries due to the system's spoon feeding and babysitting.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CasavaS

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Lol sorry, but downvoted. This system is what makes Dominion to Dominion. If you were punished like in SR for having a bad game, people would stop playing this mode completely, cuz yeah, where's the fun in enemy forcing you to stay in your base the whole game time? If you cant live with how it works, just stick to SR.

Edit: you're also ignoring everyone who keeps saying that teamwork and team comp is a huge deal in dom, cuz you insist on blaming the "Big Brother" system.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Carpe Vinum

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Look, Dominion is aimed at a different mindset that you're used to. In SR a tiny mistake in the first 5-10 minutes can easily lead to you spending the next 30-50 minutes knowing that you're going to lose, knowing that there's nothing you can do about it and unable to surrender because you have a few idiots or trolls on board who vote no every time it comes up. Is it fun to be on the side that's winning and know that there's not much the other team can do to stop you as long as you don't have a screw up of epic proportions? It can be, but with that mechanic in place it all but guarantees that half the people involved are going to have a miserable time.

Further, Dominion doesn't actively help teams to come back or actively punish winning teams like you're implying, it just makes such comebacks possible. If you're winning, the way to keep winning it to play cautiously and consistently. You get the same base gold as the other team and if you're winning you should have more gold than they do because you've killed more champs and creeps and capped more towers. You should be better equipped than they are and as long as you don't die their death timer advantage doesn't help them one bit.

If you have 3 points capped and a huge lead on the other team you only have yourself to blame if you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by pulling a Leeroy Jenkins, letting them backdoor you whatever dumb **** you're pulling that lets them secure the win.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Finasterra

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Vinum View Post
their death timer advantage doesn't help them one bit.
are you high?
zerg rushing for the lose =(


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Panwar

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finasterra View Post
are you high?
zerg rushing for the lose =(
Yah I've seen how zerg rushing helps a lot. They zerg rush out into the opening of their base while they are slaughtered whole-sale by the clearly dominant team that has them 5 capped.

A bad team(whether bad through skill or composition) cannot hold on to the 2 points on your side(regardless of their respawn time) if you are a more skilled and better composed team. They simply can't. And if you can get your two points, you can take windmill, or their bot.

Besides there is just faulty thinking in blaming come-back mechanics for your loss. If it were the mechanics at fault for you losing(and not just your poor skill/decisions/team composition) then you would start to make your comeback as soon as you were in point deficit. You have to realize that don't you? That the so-called mechanics would be on your side as soon as your points dropped below theirs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Finasterra

Senior Member

10-11-2011

if you refer to the thread i posted, asking about the mechanics.. i'm not convinced that once your gain the come back mechanics's advantage.. that you ever lose it.. even after you've taken the lead.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Finasterra

Senior Member

10-11-2011

if you have information about the exact benefits of the mechanics.. i'd love to hear it. i don't understand them well.. and i want to.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Squidget

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necks View Post
The thing I find interesting about Summoner's Rift is that there's a large diaspora between skilled players and mediocre to bad players. You can clearly see the skill difference between two opposing teams. When you're winning, you know you're winning because you're simply outplaying the enemy team. Player skill is a huge factor in winning.

Dominion has this "Big Brother" syndrome. When a team is losing, the big brother system lends you a hand and says "It's okay that you suck, I'll help you win!". The system aids the losing team by modifying the game mechanics to support them. This results in an artificially-made "close match"...not due to player skill, but simply due to the system's aid for losing teams.

When a losing team on Summoner's Rift turns the game around and wins, it's because the players on the losing team did something awesome that turned everything around. There's that epic turn-around moment. Most importantly, it's a result of player actions. Not the system. Dominion lacks that epic feeling of player skill turning the tides of a match. It's more of a passive, artificial, babysitting nudge from the game system.

The extreme amount of intervention from the game system just bothers me.
Other way around. Summoner's Rift babysits the winning team. Early play superiority in Summoner's Rift transfers to a huge mechanics advantage in the late-game. Dominion doesn't have a lot of strong comeback mechanics, it just lacks the snowball mechanics of Summoner's Rift.

I understand that you're thinking of SR as the 'default', but SR is an inherently snowbally gametype. Dominion's comeback mechanics aren't particularly game-changing, it just feels like they are because you're used to being twice as strong as the other team once you've built up an early advantage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DreamsOfGrandeur

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-11-2011

I don't see a problem with a game where you have to work together for the entirety of the game, and any slip-ups are emphasized for the enemy to take advantage of.

The game's rubberband effect doesn't cause the losing team to gain an advantage.
A lot of teams that start out ahead just stop pulling as hard as they had in the early game; they go "gg" when there's a 300 point lead and start making mistakes or goofing off.


The game rewards people who can work together seriously for the full 20 minutes, and DOMINATE.

Teams that start relaxing when the enemy nexus is below 50 points, are effectively costing themselves the game. It's not really the game's mechanics causing the rubberband effect - It's players like the OP misunderstanding how the game is set up.


There's always a chance the enemy can come back - So don't relax, and hold your points seriously until the enemy Nexus is at "0". Not "50", not "10", not even "1" - Until it's "0", zero, ziltch, the end.
There are games happening everyday where people lose while the enemy Nexus is below 5 points, because they relaxed before it was over, and the enemy pounced.

It's never over until its over.



If you think this sort of game is bad - You're weak.
A truly tough game is one that makes you try your hardest, from start to finish.

Summoner's Rift is easy-mode. You last-hit, play safe, build an advantage, and steamroll to victory with a few good decisions.

Dominion's hard-mode. You always have to be working on your next move and never letting up the pressure, or the enemy will walk all over you.



Dominion is closer to a true strategy game because economy is not as big a factor.

Victory is based on good strategy - Almost pure decision-making. There's less "do this, and you're set". More "Do this, and you're safe... for now..."

Have a good early game and gold-base doesn't influence the game as much. What truly influences who wins and loses is team work. Individual player decisions. Being able to maintain a succession of good decision making is what wins Dominion.

Not everyone can handle that sort of environment, in my opinion. I know I don't last long, Dominion can be really exhausting.
That's probably why a lot of people don't like it. They want to last-hit, build a gold advantage, and just steamroll. Dominion isn't like that.

Summoner's Rift is won by good decision making - But on there, there's a point where if the enemy is fed enough, no good decision you make can turn the tables.




I'm not saying Dominion is perfect.
It has its own issues, like scoring, the viability of ranged champions, and other little things. But the fairness/rubberband mechanic is definitely not one of them.

A game that asks everyone to try their hardest, and punishes those who don't - That's a wonderful thing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CasavaS

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-11-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCuri View Post
I don't see a problem with a game where you have to work together for the entirety of the game, and any slip-ups are emphasized for the enemy to take advantage of.

The game's rubberband effect doesn't cause the losing team to gain an advantage.
A lot of teams that start out ahead just stop pulling as hard as they had in the early game; they go "gg" when there's a 300 point lead and start making mistakes or goofing off.


The game rewards people who can work together seriously for the full 20 minutes, and DOMINATE.

Teams that start relaxing when the enemy nexus is below 50 points, are effectively costing themselves the game. It's not really the game's mechanics causing the rubberband effect - It's players like the OP misunderstanding how the game is set up.


There's always a chance the enemy can come back - So don't relax, and hold your points seriously until the enemy Nexus is at "0". Not "50", not "10", not even "1" - Until it's "0", zero, ziltch, the end.
There are games happening everyday where people lose while the enemy Nexus is below 5 points, because they relaxed before it was over, and the enemy pounced.

It's never over until its over.



If you think this sort of game is bad - You're weak.
A truly tough game is one that makes you try your hardest, from start to finish.

Summoner's Rift is easy-mode. You last-hit, play safe, build an advantage, and steamroll to victory with a few good decisions.

Dominion's hard-mode. You always have to be working on your next move and never letting up the pressure, or the enemy will walk all over you.



Dominion is closer to a true strategy game because economy is not as big a factor.

Victory is based on good strategy - Almost pure decision-making. There's less "do this, and you're set". More "Do this, and you're safe... for now..."

Have a good early game and gold-base doesn't influence the game as much. What truly influences who wins and loses is team work. Individual player decisions. Being able to maintain a succession of good decision making is what wins Dominion.

Not everyone can handle that sort of environment, in my opinion. I know I don't last long, Dominion can be really exhausting.
That's probably why a lot of people don't like it. They want to last-hit, build a gold advantage, and just steamroll. Dominion isn't like that.

Summoner's Rift is won by good decision making - But on there, there's a point where if the enemy is fed enough, no good decision you make can turn the tables.




I'm not saying Dominion is perfect.
It has its own issues, like scoring, the viability of ranged champions, and other little things. But the fairness/rubberband mechanic is definitely not one of them.

A game that asks everyone to try their hardest, and punishes those who don't - That's a wonderful thing.
+1. And if I could I'd give you another +1.


12345612 ... 22