Speedy Janna, or support in dominion in general

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

InmoniXian

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Well I"m glad my first thread is proving to be such an interesting discussion, despite the minor amount of flames and such going on.

Though to be honest I was hoping for a more broad discussion over possible good builds rather than just who sucks the most that we seem to have going on.

To address a few things, no I don't have the best record or the most amount of games, but my play style has been doing very effective. I find a tanky Speedy Janna is able to be where she needs to be , helping teammates retreat, disrupting enemy lines and generally occupying enemy champs, distracting them with backdoor caps , most counter arguments I'm seeing melt down to "Janna can't kill" "Janna can't tank" and "Janna can't cap" and "Janna can't defend" ... while I do none of these things great, my speed and durability allow me very quick access around the map to exploit any opening that may pop up, I can do all these things good, and I rarely die as much as you make it out that I should, with my speed enemies rarely get more than a few hits in and my durability is enough to handle that.

One specific thing I'd like to address is how Gangplank outmoves Janna.... I don't see how this is possible,Janna gets a 16% from Zephyr 3% from her passive and 8 percent from Force of nature, with a base movement of 310.. Gangplank has a 320 base and a 7% increase, with a speed debuff he applies with his melee hit, ...you say Gangplank can easily sidestep Janna's Q but if he's side stepping he's not moving forward , effectively slowing him again.. now for sake of argument, I'm going to assume your gangplank also has ghost and Exhaust like my janna does, but I doubt he's speced for them in masteries, but even if he does, I doubt he's packing a precilla's blessing for an extra 30% movement speed boost,

perhaps I"m missing something there but I don't see how gangplank could possibly outrun janna, even if he has a full 21% speed debuff on her.

Keep up the good debates folks, remember ,just because someone doesn't agree with you is no reason to flame them we are allowed to have our own opinions, It's pretty natural for everyone to think their own ideas are better than everyone else.

EDIT, I also rarely use Zephr to slow people ,it's far more useful to keep the speed buff on yourself unless you are certain it's 1v1, howling gale is the true slowing ability with the land mine effect of it and the time wasted juking it


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KommunistKevin

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by InmoniXian View Post
Well I"m glad my first thread is proving to be such an interesting discussion, despite the minor amount of flames and such going on.

Though to be honest I was hoping for a more broad discussion over possible good builds rather than just who sucks the most that we seem to have going on.

To address a few things, no I don't have the best record or the most amount of games, but my play style has been doing very effective. I find a tanky Speedy Janna is able to be where she needs to be , helping teammates retreat, disrupting enemy lines and generally occupying enemy champs, distracting them with backdoor caps , most counter arguments I'm seeing melt down to "Janna can't kill" "Janna can't tank" and "Janna can't cap" and "Janna can't defend" ... while I do none of these things great, my speed and durability allow me very quick access around the map to exploit any opening that may pop up, I can do all these things good, and I rarely die as much as you make it out that I should, with my speed enemies rarely get more than a few hits in and my durability is enough to handle that.

One specific thing I'd like to address is how Gangplank outmoves Janna.... I don't see how this is possible,Janna gets a 16% from Zephyr 3% from her passive and 8 percent from Force of nature, with a base movement of 310.. Gangplank has a 320 base and a 7% increase, with a speed debuff he applies with his melee hit, ...you say Gangplank can easily sidestep Janna's Q but if he's side stepping he's not moving forward , effectively slowing him again.. now for sake of argument, I'm going to assume your gangplank also has ghost and Exhaust like my janna does, but I doubt he's speced for them in masteries, but even if he does, I doubt he's packing a precilla's blessing for an extra 30% movement speed boost,

perhaps I"m missing something there but I don't see how gangplank could possibly outrun janna, even if he has a full 21% speed debuff on her.

Keep up the good debates folks, remember ,just because someone doesn't agree with you is no reason to flame them we are allowed to have our own opinions, It's pretty natural for everyone to think their own ideas are better than everyone else.

EDIT, I also rarely use Zephr to slow people ,it's far more useful to keep the speed buff on yourself unless you are certain it's 1v1, howling gale is the true slowing ability with the land mine effect of it and the time wasted juking it
Gangplank can activate his E to get a MASSIVE speed buff, gangplank gives more speed to his allies, has a global ult, can kite like a boss, immune to cc and tough to take down 1 v 1. He will most likely be building a force of nature along with a trinity force for more movespeed.

When he activates his E he gets 26% + 7% compared to Janna's 16%+3%


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

InmoniXian

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Not to shabby, true I didn't notice he sets it off for the 26, but comparing a seven second 26 to always 16 is risky, since we're now counting ults in this, Howling gale and Monsoon means you'll spend the majority of those seven seconds, Jukeing/bouncing in the air , basically it comes down alot of factors since you only have seven seconds of being faster, Obviously it's not something that we're going to have to agree to disagree, but I think in practice seven seconds is just too much of a gamble to risk the whole fight on especially since you've just dropped your speed for even longer...

basically it comes down to a counter match, You pop your morale and get a 26% buff, I pop zepher and give you a 48% penalty, your buff lasts seven seconds zephr east four seconds and recharges much faster (25 seconds for yours 8 seconds for mine) during the remaining 3 seconds you need to dodge a monsoon as well as a howling gale and still get to me in enough time to land all your speed debuffs or I get away, , there's no winning for either side in this argument, but I still say Janna comes out on top mainly due to your seven second limitation

Good luck


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KommunistKevin

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by InmoniXian View Post
Not to shabby, true I didn't notice he sets it off for the 26, but comparing a seven second 26 to always 16 is risky, since we're now counting ults in this, Howling gale and Monsoon means you'll spend the majority of those seven seconds, Jukeing/bouncing in the air , basically it comes down alot of factors since you only have seven seconds of being faster, Obviously it's not something that we're going to have to agree to disagree, but I think in practice seven seconds is just too much of a gamble to risk the whole fight on especially since you've just dropped your speed for even longer...

basically it comes down to a counter match, You pop your morale and get a 26% buff, I pop zepher and give you a 48% penalty, your buff lasts seven seconds zephr east four seconds and recharges much faster (25 seconds for yours 8 seconds for mine) during the remaining 3 seconds you need to dodge a monsoon as well as a howling gale and still get to me in enough time to land all your speed debuffs or I get away, , there's no winning for either side in this argument, but I still say Janna comes out on top mainly due to your seven second limitation

Good luck
Max CDR I win pretty much every game I play as gangplank hes so OP, i oranges your zephyr with my oranges then run you down and kill you... since you have no movespeed buff and i still ahve my 26%

Im just gonna run gangplank till people learn to start banning him

Howling gale is a .8 second knockup, and you are really going to waste a 120 second cooldown ultimate just to RUN AWAY from GP?

Janna is a poor pick on dominion, deal with it


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

InmoniXian

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Sorry chap, I still don't believe you'll get to me in time, between bouncing back with Monsoon, and Howling gale knocking you up , also buying me extra time to run, during which I would have a move speed buff as I'd be poping pricilla's at that time, I'm still confident I could keep you distracted for seven seconds

As I said, it comes down to a Counter match both Janna and Gangplank have a lot of options theory crafting a perfectly timed scenario where we each pull of every move with completely perfect timing and ninja like precision isn't going to convince either of us as player skill is really going to be the tie breaker


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evilsforreals

Member

10-07-2011

If we assume that Janna has 35-40% CD Reduction:

Howling Gale is a 6 second CD
Zephyr is a 5 second CD
Eye of the Storm is a 6 second CD

Plus, this is not a normal squishy build, taking CD Reduction from a Frozen Heart and Morellos Evil Tome.

Let's say Xin uses Audacious Charge with both Xin and Janna at full health. If Janna sees him coming, odds are, she'll put up her shield. So Xin rushes in, deals damage to the shield and begins his Talon Strike.

Once Janna is knocked up, she casts howling gale. As Xin is right next to her, there is a very low chance of Xin dodging it. This gives Janna a chance to cast the Zephyr slow onto Xin, as Janna moves away from Xin. By this time, her shield is back up, and if Xin is following Janna reapplies it. And now the speed of zephyr passive is reapplied, giving Janna more movement speed. She has the option of keeping the passive, and using another Howling gale to knock Xin up or make him dodge it, or to use zephyrs slow again.

This doesn't cover factors such as boots, rylais crystal scepter, or her ultimate, each which can be used to outrun, push, or slow Xin.

This won't always happen. Sometimes the Xin will kill the Janna. Sometimes the Janna will get away. Sometimes the Janna will kill Xin. Yes, I've seen it happen, and I've done it.

I'm just saying you can't assume that every "support" character will behave the same way as in SR. Support has evolved into some interesting builds that make them more than capable of sustaining and aiding a team, whether in shields and heals, or even flat AD and AP. There was a Sona on our team once (a personal favorite character of mine) who told us she was going AD Critical. I was surprised, but she was insistent that it would work.

It was an incredilbly close game of 10-0 as the final score but we won. And that Sona had captured the most points, defended the most, died the least, and had the 2nd most kills on the team.

What I'm trying to say is that anything is possible, depending on the ability of the players, the item choices, and the composition of the team. Don't be so quick to bash support, when they have quite a few excellent rolesmto play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

evilsforreals

Member

10-07-2011

And this isn't just for Xin, this can be applied to any enemy champion


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Harate

Senior Member

10-07-2011

I main janna and CS and SR combined I have about 300 games played with her. I tried her in Dominion for a long time and in my opinion it's better to just have carry's and a tank. supports are fairly useless againts a great team and in terms of tanking a turret supports are OK especially Janna, but there are champs that can do it better and contribute more in terms of damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

InmoniXian

Senior Member

10-07-2011

I guess that's the Mark that Riot has done a great job with the game, if players can argue that their build is the best and both players are each getting good results with their builds perhaps that is balance in a nutshell.

If Kevin plays a lot of his games as Gangplank and does great winning the majority of his games, and I do the same with Janna , then that sounds balanced to me and everyone is having fun, so arguing over hypothetical s just seems kinda silly ^_^ it's kind of a my dad can beat up your dad kind of argument lol


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KommunistKevin

Senior Member

10-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by InmoniXian View Post
Sorry chap, I still don't believe you'll get to me in time, between bouncing back with Monsoon, and Howling gale knocking you up , also buying me extra time to run, during which I would have a move speed buff as I'd be poping pricilla's at that time, I'm still confident I could keep you distracted for seven seconds

As I said, it comes down to a Counter match both Janna and Gangplank have a lot of options theory crafting a perfectly timed scenario where we each pull of every move with completely perfect timing and ninja like precision isn't going to convince either of us as player skill is really going to be the tie breaker
Except Janna cant kill GP, GP kills Janna

How is this remotely fair? GP can travel the map faster, solo anyone almost 1 v 1, and has a global ult on a much shorter cooldown

Why play Janna when GP does everything better