I cant get out of Hell as a support, can I?

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MarlaMazzyHope

Member

10-24-2012

Tonight was 2-2 I think. The two wins I cruised, my adc's were good last hitters and knew how to dodge a skill shot. The mood is the same win or lose, pretty much anything on my side of the map that's bad is my fault, I actually had 30 assists on 36 kills in one game before anyone said a word. Whatever.

The losses were like forcing me to eat spiders while taking a spin class. The pace is so frenetic because my adc's are eating all the damage they can possibly take as if at some point they'll be able to harness it and throw it back. I can't even pop a ward down because I'm so concerned with my adc getting dived that I have no clue where the enemy jungle might be. They don't care! They chase everything! Kills turn into even splits or 3-2 losses because they follow the enemy champ like it has them in a damned tractor beam. They ask me where the heals are. They are never all in the same place. They think Irelia is our tank.

My point, is to vent really, but I'll spin it this way. The losses I was the high elo player and still took support. I've done well recently as support, and jungle. I think, if I'm the high elo player in the champ select, I should probably jungle rather than support I feel jungle has a more immediate effect on the tone of the game. I wont say one role is more effective for moving elo, because mine ain't moving. But I'm sorta saying it.

But you know how it goes, you have two kinds of players in my elo range:

Those that can only play one role

And those that can play "anything but support

So what do you do? Should I force the issue so I can jungle and force someone to play something they basically say is the only thing they don't want to do? Or eat spiders and take spin every other match and hope I go maybe 11-9 out of every 20


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Well, where do you think you are in terms of current Elo and actual skill level?

If, for example, you think you're an 1800 Elo player and you're at 800 Elo, then playing mid or jungle would certainly be better. Heck, even playing an ADC or top, simply because you're taking direct control over a champion that can directly wreck the enemy team, and at that skill gap, you can just 1v5 the whole enemy team and it won't even matter.

This, however, isn't to say that you can't carry yourself out as support. It's just to say that as support, it's extremely difficult to carry individual games.

However, if you're at 1300 Elo, but you think you're a 1400 player, and support is your best role, you need to stick to support. There are two reasons for this. First, by sticking to support, you're avoiding forcing someone else into playing support. There are people with the "anything but support," and being a good support player isn't necessarily easy. There are other roles that are easier to be good at. And your team as a whole is better off with you at support if that's your best role and the gap between your current Elo and actual skill level is so small.

So here's the deal though, your team will consist of:

1300 solotop
1300 solomid
1300 jungler
1300 ADC
1400 support

While the enemy team consists of:

1300 solotop
1300 solomid
1300 jungler
1300 ADC
1300 support


So, while it's hard for a support to individually carry games, the support can also have the largest impact on the entire team and determine the winner of the match.

Just look at laning phase. It's a 1300/1400 vs a 1300/1300. Not only are you going to outplay the enemy support, but the fact that you're outplaying the enemy support means that more often than not, the ADC on your team is out-playing the ADC on their team.

In the other 3 roles, whether your teammate won or lost their lane is going to be a coinflip. But when you get to teamfights, because you're a better support, you're going to guarantee that the times your teammates won their lanes, you'll snowball it into a team victory by doing everything you need in teamfights. And the times your teammates lost their lanes, you'll be able to slow down the enemy snowball and your team can still win some of these situations.


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Fiveofswords

Senior Member

10-25-2012

you could get out of elo hell playing support easily...if people listen to your dieas about what you guys should do.


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Hunna211

Member

10-25-2012

I definitely carried a game as Sona the other day. Our adc didnt re-connect until a good 30 minutes into the game, so I was solo'ing bottom against MF and a support mundo. My tower wasn't the first to fall, even being 1v2 in my lane, and I ended the game at 8-8-24. We ended up winning, even though it was 4v5 for over 30 min of the game. Our adc re-connected, farmed minions that were pushed up far, and we turned the game around. Here's a link to the match http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/35763526#history.


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MarlaMazzyHope

Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Well, where do you think you are in terms of current Elo and actual skill level?

If, for example, you think you're an 1800 Elo player and you're at 800 Elo, then playing mid or jungle would certainly be better. Heck, even playing an ADC or top, simply because you're taking direct control over a champion that can directly wreck the enemy team, and at that skill gap, you can just 1v5 the whole enemy team and it won't even matter.

This, however, isn't to say that you can't carry yourself out as support. It's just to say that as support, it's extremely difficult to carry individual games.

However, if you're at 1300 Elo, but you think you're a 1400 player, and support is your best role, you need to stick to support. There are two reasons for this. First, by sticking to support, you're avoiding forcing someone else into playing support. There are people with the "anything but support," and being a good support player isn't necessarily easy. There are other roles that are easier to be good at. And your team as a whole is better off with you at support if that's your best role and the gap between your current Elo and actual skill level is so small.

So here's the deal though, your team will consist of:

1300 solotop
1300 solomid
1300 jungler
1300 ADC
1400 support

While the enemy team consists of:

1300 solotop
1300 solomid
1300 jungler
1300 ADC
1300 support


So, while it's hard for a support to individually carry games, the support can also have the largest impact on the entire team and determine the winner of the match.

Just look at laning phase. It's a 1300/1400 vs a 1300/1300. Not only are you going to outplay the enemy support, but the fact that you're outplaying the enemy support means that more often than not, the ADC on your team is out-playing the ADC on their team.

In the other 3 roles, whether your teammate won or lost their lane is going to be a coinflip. But when you get to teamfights, because you're a better support, you're going to guarantee that the times your teammates won their lanes, you'll snowball it into a team victory by doing everything you need in teamfights. And the times your teammates lost their lanes, you'll be able to slow down the enemy snowball and your team can still win some of these situations.

Well the thing is I don't know because I haven't been up there, but since opening ranked knowing pretty much nothing, I know "see" the game much better. So I quarterback a good deal, I call towers to push, I ping, call out respawn timers after aces, call out overextending mates, etc etc. So I am kind of resigned to play support out and climb slow.

And its not like I've mastered it, I still have some gaping flaws playing support. I ward much less when I'm losing, or rather when there's a fed champ roaming around. I'll b, and notice the same 4 wards still in my pack from the last visit. It's bad.

If we lose our tower or drop theirs I usually want to hit mid, and the adc usually wants to stay and farm, so I feel like I'm either hanging him out to dry or maybe leaving mid lane to get pushed. I would love insight on that one, assuming the adc isn't communicating well. I just don't see the logic in taking a bottom tower just to watch their adc/sup slide to mid and rush it down for the compensation of a couple waves for my adc.

People say explain this and explain that, but with my lack of typing skills and patience it's hard to watch my adc, watch the two enemy champs, watch river, poke, place wards, watch minions health so I know when to poke, and then also explain why I went somewhere or used a spell or didn't use a spell.

Thanks for the feedback.


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Hunna211

Member

10-25-2012

Biggest problem I've had so far while supporting in ranked solo games, is that i get a horrid adc who blames me for their death. They either over-extend, have no map awareness and get caught by the enemy jungler, or just have no clue about the cd timers of their support. I've literally healed my adc with taric/sorka (which has quite a lengthy timer at lower lvls), and then had them charge into a bush and die, to then turn around and blame me for not healing them. I'm sorry u missed my 16 sec cd i literally just used on you, and it wasn't up in time again for your shenanigans. I also was in a game where 5 min in, the adc had 2 cs and was 0-3-0. But yet again, the blame was put on me for not supporting. It seems people just havent ever bothered playing a support and don't fully grasp how the mechanics work, and would rather blame someone else for poor play.


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Grollm

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Do not do it. That's why my elo is complete ****. Go a carry role.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarlaMazzyHope View Post
Thanks for the feedback.
Yea, basically the point of my post was this...

If you're close to your appropriate Elo (but still not quite there), you'll pretty much climb at the same rate no matter what position you play (assuming equal skill at all positions), so your best bet is to play the role you're best at.

If you're not close to your appropriate Elo, you can raise it fastest playing a role other than support, HOWEVER, you will still get to your appropriate Elo no matter what role you play, even if that's support.


EDIT: My other suggestion is to play more aggressive supports. You can have a much bigger impact on the game with a Blitzcrank or Alistar support then you will with say a Soraka or Taric.


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Grollm

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Yea, basically the point of my post was this...

If you're close to your appropriate Elo (but still not quite there), you'll pretty much climb at the same rate no matter what position you play (assuming equal skill at all positions), so your best bet is to play the role you're best at.

If you're not close to your appropriate Elo, you can raise it fastest playing a role other than support, HOWEVER, you will still get to your appropriate Elo no matter what role you play, even if that's support.


EDIT: My other suggestion is to play more aggressive supports. You can have a much bigger impact on the game with a Blitzcrank or Alistar support then you will with say a Soraka or Taric.
I agree with you absolutely if you have a semi competent team. But if you have a team full of tardbots, you won't make a difference if you're freaking Amumu support. I am an amazing support, but if my adc and my jungler isn't somewhat competent, we lose the lane and then the game because that's 3 people that are behind. If I have an adc who is good and either our jungler is good or theirs is bad, I can usually do very well and get the carry super fed. I just think until you get to 1800+ you should stay away from support unless you KNOW that your adc is good. If I am forced to support in solo queue, I am going to from now on lolking my adc and then if he's **** I'm dodging.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollm View Post
I agree with you absolutely if you have a semi competent team.
So, since I actually read your post, and you didn't read my post at all, I know that you're wrong and you don't agree with me at all.

Look, sometimes your teammates will be worse then the enemy team, and you'll lose. It's not going to matter how good you are at support, that's just what's going to happen. That will happen at EVERY Elo level. Even at 1800 Elo, there are some ADCs that are worse than others at that level. There are some jungler that are worse than others at that level. If the enemy jungler and ADC are both significantly better than your jungler and ADC, then it doesn't matter how much better you are then the enemy support, even at 1800 Elo.

But that's one match. Your sample size is way too small. Over the course of a very large sample size, the number of matches which are unwinnable because your ADC and jungle aren't good enough to beat the enemies in those roles will exactly equal the number of matches which are unloseable because the enemy ADC and jungle aren't good enough to beat your teammates in those roles.

And if you're going to argue that your teammates never make games unloseable, then I'll argue that your teammates also don't make games unwinnable. Period. You get both or none. You can't have one without the other.

So then there's a lot of games in between in which the junglers are about even, the ADCs are about even, but you're significantly outplaying the enemy support (which you're doing in EVERY match if you truly belong at a higher Elo than what you're playing at). In these matches, in which the teams are even, it's your superior play at support which will result in your team winning more matches over time than your team loses. And the result? You rise in Elo.


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