TT Global buff?

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BRAVEYpl0x

Senior Member

10-05-2011

Let's brain storm about a Global buff (a la Crystal Scar Dominion buff) that would help bring TT into a more balanced and perhaps more competitive light.

For reference, this is the CS buff:
15% armor pen
5% magic pen
increased mana regen
passive XP gain
20% reduced healing effects.

Using ^that as a starting point, I think the passive penetration would help break down the all-tanky-dps meta. Thoughts? Comments? TT lover's unite! Let's revive this tight tactical map 3v3 goodness!

Edit: Lets also takl about items! Both removal and suggestions for additions. Would you add any dominion items?

List of ideas I like in this thread (I will try to keep this list updated. If u guys see something i miss, let me know!):
- Replacing high yield Defensive items and replace them with lower yeild, lower cost alternatives. Current tanky items are geared to withstand 3-5 man focus late game and thus are too strong for 2-3 man focus scenarios.
-Remove snowball items.
-Hit self-sustain w/o hitting support healing (tricky)

List of related threads with constructive dialogue (Once again, inform me of ones that I miss)
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...0#post15489050


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

10-05-2011

Making it not 3v3 would balance it.

Seriously, Tanky DPS dominate far too well on the map BECAUSE the map biggest fights are skirmishes relative to Summoner's Rift fights.



I would love a 5v5 map with a potential 3v3 lane. The new possibilities are so numerous!

Two support, 1 Carry? Soraka + Sona + Trist?
Two tanks, 1 carry? Alistar + Singed + Kog?
3 Carries? - Vayne + Cait + Ashe?
3 Nuke casters? Annie + Anivia + Xerath? Fire! Ice! Lightninnnnnng!!
1 tank, 1 nuke, 1 carry? Leona + Akali + Caitlyn - a deadly combo


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JayceJa

Senior Member

10-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCuri View Post
Making it not 3v3 would balance it.

Seriously, Tanky DPS dominate far too well on the map BECAUSE the map biggest fights are skirmishes relative to Summoner's Rift fights.



I would love a 5v5 map with a potential 3v3 lane. The new possibilities are so numerous!

Two support, 1 Carry? Soraka + Sona + Trist?
Two tanks, 1 carry? Alistar + Singed + Kog?
3 Carries? - Vayne + Cait + Ashe?
3 Nuke casters? Annie + Anivia + Xerath? Fire! Ice! Lightninnnnnng!!
1 tank, 1 nuke, 1 carry? Leona + Akali + Caitlyn - a deadly combo
no thankyou, it would be a complete pushfest with no ganking, not to mention that would in no way be balanced, it would just have its own problems. 5v5 and 6v6 TT games should be allowed in custom games, but the map is designed for 3v3 and thats where it is best.

TT is made to be a skirmish and ganking map, something similar to the Crystal scar aura providing % penetration and healing reduction could work, the mana regen and XP generation would be removed, tanky dps who run high defenses with lifesteal would be hit hard while squishier burst mages wouldnt be negatively effected much

it wouldnt be perfect, but alongside a solo queue draft mode for TT, it would provide a good enough stopgap for more balanced play until riot finally realizes they need to balance champions numerical values individually for each game mode(which im guessing they may finally realize when they release a few more maps, theres no chance 5-6 different maps/game modes can be supported at good level of balance for all levels of play by a single set of numerical values)


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Hypergrav

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Junior Member

10-05-2011

-20% healing is a bit much. You do have to try to jungle at some point and lifesteal is important for that. Perhaps 10%?

mana regen could be stupid, if it was the equivalent of a fairy pendant or something that would probably be okay.

XP gain also would have to be very slight; nowhere near as fast as Dominion.

I think a smaller amount like that would be great. Should allow for a little more diversity.


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DrKered

Senior Member

10-05-2011

Maybe:
+15% Magic Pen
+10% Armor Pen
X Mana regained upon killing a unit
Towers gain 20% armor


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JayceJa

Senior Member

10-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypergrav View Post
-20% healing is a bit much. You do have to try to jungle at some point and lifesteal is important for that. Perhaps 10%?

mana regen could be stupid, if it was the equivalent of a fairy pendant or something that would probably be okay.

XP gain also would have to be very slight; nowhere near as fast as Dominion.

I think a smaller amount like that would be great. Should allow for a little more diversity.
straight jungling 3v3 isnt viable in most cases because its simply not worth opening up your bot lane to being crushed so easily on a map where ganking from a jungler is shut down with a single ward
all jungling in 3v3 should be half jungling, where you push a wave then go to jungle as its pushed back, it shouldnt be done from level 1, and is much easier to sustain


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LordRandomness

Senior Member

10-05-2011

% reduction in max health. Removal of high-yield health items with lower health, lower cost substitutes. One of the biggest problems with TT is that you can only focus fire an enemy with three champions, likely only two unless your team is all deeps. This means someone tanky is hard to kill quickly even WITH focus fire.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

10-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayceJa View Post
no thankyou, it would be a complete pushfest with no ganking, not to mention that would in no way be balanced, it would just have its own problems. 5v5 and 6v6 TT games should be allowed in custom games, but the map is designed for 3v3 and thats where it is best.
So, defenders aren't factored in at all?

You assume it's a push fest. You don't really know how it would turn out as an official mode.
You assume that ganking would be effective when TT is a map that weighs heavily on ganking.
And if it became a push fest, that would just make Fortify more viable - Yes, that summoner spell still exists. Push comps have counters too.


And yes, it would be balanced. More balanced then it is now.
5v5 would have problems, but it would be more manageable then trying to work out how to balance 3v3 without screwing up balance on Summoner's Rift.

Squishy casters would be more effective as they are on SR.
An increase in minion gold (and possible spawn) can help with AD carry farm.

Large AoE champions would be more powerful as they should be because they're balanced around being able to hit up to 5 champions.


Right now, squishy casters and carries are less viable BECAUSE they have less allies to act as body guards and zone out the enemies.

On SR, you can't bumrush enemies or risk getting focused by 5 enemies.
On TT, you can as tanky dps because some like Jax, Morde, and Mundo, can take the focus of 2~3 enemies as opposed to 4~5. That's why it's unbalanced.

Increasing it to 5 would put Tanky DPS in line and make squishies more reliable.


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BRAVEYpl0x

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRandomness View Post
% reduction in max health. Removal of high-yield health items with lower health, lower cost substitutes. One of the biggest problems with TT is that you can only focus fire an enemy with three champions, likely only two unless your team is all deeps. This means someone tanky is hard to kill quickly even WITH focus fire.
This is a key point. The tanky items are balanced around the idea that eventually, 5 guys are gunna be beating down on ur ass. I forgot to add that we should talk about items. I will make an edit.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

10-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAVEYpl0x View Post
This is a key point. The tanky items are balanced around the idea that eventually, 5 guys are gunna be beating down on ur ass. I forgot to add that we should talk about items. I will make an edit.
Again... an easy (and already possible) solution would be to just make TT a 5v5 map.