AP Shaco breaks Dominion.

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T3kn0man

Senior Member

10-02-2011

Fair points. Maybe I play against not so great players but I have yet to have an AP Shaco that I have faced decide the outcome of a game. Remaining mobile, getting oracles elixers and the correct counter items wrecks him.

He can be an asset but like most of the champs in this mode smart play at all points of the game is the most deciding factor.


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Dianetics

Senior Member

10-02-2011

actually AP shaco is just as OP on SR. In fact I've thought so since before dominion and now hotshotgg is starting to practice him for tournament play. I mean Shaco's W is more powerful than heimerdinger's turrets and teemo's mushrooms combined. They have a hard CC. They stack unlimited and they do A LOT of damage. They can easily kill someone from full health to zero before the CC is even up if you stack enough of them. Broken game mechanic and its only a matter of time before they're nerfed.


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Matthew21210

Senior Member

10-02-2011

Suddenly, Xin zhao, audacious charge. One. Two... Fwish. That's the sound of an ult.
Or alistar. Headbutt into ground slam, destroys the boxes as they pop. Fear goes off but no damage.
Suddenly, back cap, ignore top.
Suddenly, The way you've set up this scenario, shaco has at least fifteen boxes up. A pair at each health entrance, scattered throughout the jungle and stacked on the point. Boxes continually fall out and he replaces them. Engaging him in a poke war of any sort for more than thirty seconds and a third of his defense falls out and isn't re established until a ninety second cycle runs it's course and he can get boxes back up to his max.
Is AP shaco good on CS? Yes, but not as good as you make him out to be. Also, if you can get ahold of top, he can't retake it by himself either. It's like he got +2 to defending but +0 to assaulting. That's obviously not balanced. (sarcasm)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dianetics View Post
actually AP shaco is just as OP on SR. In fact I've thought so since before dominion and now hotshotgg is starting to practice him for tournament play. I mean Shaco's W is more powerful than heimerdinger's turrets and teemo's mushrooms combined. They have a hard CC. They stack unlimited and they do A LOT of damage. They can easily kill someone from full health to zero before the CC is even up if you stack enough of them. Broken game mechanic and its only a matter of time before they're nerfed.
Shaco wasting enough time to stack 3 boxes (The absolute minimum to guarantee a kill IF they're feared into the nest or keep ****ing with it after the initial fear) is time you're farming a lane. Shaco standing around waiting for you to walk into a trap is time you spend... farming a lane. If you walk into a nest in lane, you're bad. What did you think he was doing in that bush? If you walk into one in a jungle, well, shaco wasted a minute standing in a bush, you could have farmed twice the gold he got from killing you in that time, and not walked into the bush. What you're doing is complaining that leblanc can kill you when you walk under her tower and autoattack her. Well no ****. You just stepped out in front of a semi. The only difference with shaco is that his semi doesn't move. You're getting run over by a parked car, which, I'm gonna be honest, would make me wanna ***** and moan too.


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AnemoneMeer

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Senior Member

10-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew21210 View Post
Suddenly, Xin zhao, audacious charge. One. Two... Fwish. That's the sound of an ult.
Or alistar. Headbutt into ground slam, destroys the boxes as they pop. Fear goes off but no damage.
Suddenly, back cap, ignore top.
Suddenly, The way you've set up this scenario, shaco has at least fifteen boxes up. A pair at each health entrance, scattered throughout the jungle and stacked on the point. Boxes continually fall out and he replaces them. Engaging him in a poke war of any sort for more than thirty seconds and a third of his defense falls out and isn't re established until a ninety second cycle runs it's course and he can get boxes back up to his max.
Is AP shaco good on CS? Yes, but not as good as you make him out to be. Also, if you can get ahold of top, he can't retake it by himself either. It's like he got +2 to defending but +0 to assaulting. That's obviously not balanced. (sarcasm)
See post. Understand I adressed this.

Xin charges in. boxes in every direction pop, the initial fear buys shaco enough time to get out of range, shiving Xin after the fear ends for good measure. Xin stops existing, shaco replaces several boxes.

Alistair combos, destroys 1-2 boxes because Shaco spread them out. Triggers ult, Shaco shivs and kites, ult goes down, Alistair dies. If Ali had teammates, this would work out better, but Shaco can still escape in one piece. Also, Decieve can EASILY dodge Alistair headbutt. I've dodged headbutt, and had my headbutt dodged often enough to know this.

If you don't outright dive him, you're dealing with the boxes 1-2 at a time, and Shaco himself. Within the time it takes for the fear to wear off, shiv, Shaco himself harassing you, you can't win a war of attrition at all. If he has Lichbane, odds are he's going to take advantage of those boxes to poke you for a decent amount of life when you pop them. And if you push him out, he's going to use his clone to stop you from capping while he retreats, further stalling.

And, if you read it, you'd understand that I am not sure if I'd call him overpowered, but when it comes to holding a single point, nobody does it better. I'm complaining about him going against the concept of Dominion, fast paced gameplay, and unstable matches, by making a single point virtually impossible to seige, and being virtually useless at attacking a point.


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UnderAchiever

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Senior Member

10-02-2011

yorick/annie/other shaco/anyone with a pet tosses their pets at teh boxes and pops them all


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AnemoneMeer

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Senior Member

10-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderAchiever View Post
yorick/annie/other shaco/anyone with a pet tosses their pets at teh boxes and pops them all
Once again, a good AP Shaco knows that having a single boxpile gets you killed. If they're spread, shaco can deal with pets. Pets, however, ARE a good tactic against him, and Yorick can actually push an AP Shaco off a point. Simply takes him ages as each pet will only pop one box on its own.

Also, Annie using tibbers to pop JitB's is generally a bad idea because shaco can spin around and pop Annie.


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

10-02-2011

played AP shaco very very long time, while he looks strong on dominion hes rediculiously easy to counter, all he can do is stall for time and try to drop your hp very lo to scare you off. he needs his deathfire to even consider going for a kill and thats a 60 sec CD, short on SR but a very long time on dominion, hes relying heavily on those boxes which of course is never a good idea.

once people get used to fighting AP shaco he wont be an issue anymore, its not like SR where you have to come through the jungle/river at some point and you have no idea where he is and if hes been stacking a nest or not, on SR he can mind **** your team with "what ifs" and make them scared to engage giving your team a massive advantage.

his main job is to enage in teamfights and instantly gimp their carry's hp bar, on dominion however he looses his primary function since conventional teamfights dont happen at all and the jungle is less usefull since with all that line of sight you know roghly where he is, to get a jungle kill where you dnt know where the nest it he has to be gone for a minute at least so its essentially 4 vs 5.

not gonna lie hes twice as usefull and twice as powerful on SR, and since everyone gets the same exp and gold roughly hes not even useful for picking off weak people since everyone can be hard to kill, and lastly everyone respawns very fast, killing is less important, hes there for killing.


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Lunar Havoc

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Recruiter

10-02-2011

AP Shaco, awesome against pursuing noobs, not so great when faced with a minion wave. Plan accordingly.


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Tvor

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Recruiter

10-02-2011

What AP shaco does best is stalling and trading point, if he couldn't kill you.

When you are behind, you lose a lot of points trying to push a decent size wave that don't get wipe out instantly. What is problematic is shaco is good at stalling, 1 v 1 defend, if he gets overwhelmed, since it is obviously you are pushing minion, he will just drop a few boxes, ditch the point, head to another point while dropping more boxes on the way. Those 2 sec fear stall him usually enough time to trade point.

Dominion is a huge time management game, taking 2-3 champs to cap a point against 1 defender free up your 2-3 to cap theirs. AP Shaco can 1 v 1 well, defend well against 1-2, stall well against overwhelming number, random roaming stall at health/speed up, good juke, assault and capture.


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Nenesse

Senior Member

10-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnemoneMeer View Post
Shaco may not be OP, but he is incredibly fustrating to play against on Crystal Scar.
The problem with this assessment is that it's not just frustrating, it's technically difficult to play against him. Frustrating means it feels bad or is less fun; what we're looking at here is real advantage, and a powerful tool that it's hard to play against.

AP Shaco is uniquely suited to Crystal Scar in a very real way. He may not be OP, but he "breaks" the game in that his trick is abusive.