AP Shaco breaks Dominion.

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AnemoneMeer

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Senior Member

10-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0B0C0P View Post
When he's facing melee, it depends on the melee. A lot of melee characters have some kind of good ranged ability. Galio and Cho'gath for example, can clear box nests quite safely, especially with a Hextech Sweeper on the suspect control point. Both characters are also strong pushers.
Cho'gath is technically a caster, as is Galio. They have melee attacks, but typically scale far better with AP. Nasus, however, is a character who is a melee, and can still deal with it, but almost any other bruiser or squishy melee will be destroyed by him.

And again, the boxes are spread around the point, not a solid cluster, so they don't explode from a single spell.


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AnemoneMeer

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10-02-2011

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Originally Posted by Sing a Ming View Post
Promote and sweeper.
Promote faces off against Garrison then. The process continues as normal after that.

Sweeper will not help if you're melee, but as a caste,r oracles extract already lets you kill the boxes, but they will still stall you. And this is before we count him attacking you at all, which is why I'm complaining at all.

He could be spamming laugh between dropping boxes, and the occasional shiv, and his productivity does not drop.


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ashkon77

Senior Member

10-02-2011

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Originally Posted by AnemoneMeer View Post
So, he killed 5 of the 8 minion wave push, this leaves 3 to attack the tower, which is a very minor number. The next set of minions collides with yours, and he places a box in the way, back behind the current lines of combat. 8 more minions push, he picks off 5 again, and the process repeats itself.

Assuming the point is then neutralised by repeatedly doing this, he stands opposite the minions, with his box back in the way, and recaptures it. If you do it long enough, his boxes WILL despawn, but we're assuming nobody ever comes to help duing the 5 minutes you're seiging him.
your assuming the pusher isn't destroying newly placed boxes, which is very very easy to do. Even if you manage to get boxes hidden, when they start attacking the minions, the pusher can then kill them instantly. Essentially u can't use boxes for defense against a smart person. You CAN use your hallucinate, but that will only stop one wave.

On top of that, this is all assuming the person doesn't have some sort of stealth detection (hextech sweeper or oracls), which are pretty easy to get with all the income you get in dominion.


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Draydan

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10-02-2011

how about it ... TANK?
Also if he is sitting on the top - his team is 4v5, right? Attack in group and take other four.


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AnemoneMeer

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10-02-2011

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Originally Posted by ashkon77 View Post
your assuming the pusher isn't destroying newly placed boxes, which is very very easy to do. Even if you manage to get boxes hidden, when they start attacking the minions, the pusher can then kill it then instantly. Essentially u can't use boxes for defense against a smart person. You CAN use your hallucinate, but that will only stop one wave.

On top of that, this is all assuming the person doesn't have some sort of stealth detection (hextech sweeper or oracls), which are pretty easy to get with all the income you get in dominion.
Alright, allow me to explain this a bit better. For this, we're assuming you're ranged and can see the boxes.

You push the minions to his turret, a box (or two on the fisrt push) pop. Shaco throws a shiv out, but does not place a new box immediately.
If you back away, he kills the minions.

If you stay to cap as well, he places a box to force you to stop capping and attack the box.

If you go to clear out the boxes, he pops Garrison, decieves to you, and does the usual 1v1 defender-attacker event, dropping a box towards your escape to either distract you from attacking, or fear you to keep you under the turret should you run. You can't fight him at this time without the turret wrecking you. You have to attack the box then retreat, and he will be at a health advantage.

He still has his ult to stall pushes while he retreats.

after the minions go away, if he still has his box off cooldown, he places it far enough back that you have to move away from pushing the minions to attack it. If you do move away, he has bought still more time.

Again, not sure if he's OP, just that he can stall for absurd amounts of time. He doesn't have anything else, but he's still impossible to seige in any decent timeframe for the map.


If you try to tank it, then, well, good luck with that. There is no ranged tank besides Galio. The tank will be eaten by a horde of boxes and Shaco can easily disengage and leave his clone to stall for longer. A tank 1v1 can't get him to leave the point, and a tank with his team lets them push on you bottom.

And yes, even if they're 4v5, they can still defend the other two points. 4 people defending a point can beat 5 people attacking a turret. as can 3 against 4.


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Wolfalisk

Member

10-02-2011

To those who complain about AP Shaco. Are you seriously trying to put forth the argument that Shaco is more problematic and game-deciding than Akali or Jax?


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Rawrful

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10-02-2011

The best way of dealing with AP Shaco is to ALWAYS run someone with a ranged AoE and a Sweeper. Pop Sweeper on the point, drop ranged AoE nuke, cap point as AP Shaco is useless.

If you don't have a ranged AoE that can do that, you are in really big trouble. AP Shaco can hold a point vs 2, maybe 3 opponents that don't play right without too much trouble if he has a good box setup and plays well. The problem with blind pick is you never know if your opponent will be running a Shaco, so you never know if you need to pick a box clearing AoE.

Though, frankly, Kog is picked so often and is capable of countering him SO HARD that AP Shaco shouldn't be too big of a problem.


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AnemoneMeer

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10-02-2011

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Originally Posted by ZergSwarms View Post
To those who complain about AP Shaco. Are you seriously trying to put forth the argument that Shaco is more problematic and game-deciding than Akali or Jax?
No.

Hell no.

Dear god no.

I'm not sure if he's "overpowered". Just that he is veeeery boring and annoying to play against.


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Wolfalisk

Member

10-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnemoneMeer View Post
No.

Hell no.

Dear god no.

I'm not sure if he's "overpowered". Just that he is veeeery boring and annoying to play against.
Alright, fair enough. It's just the implication that sort of materializes when people talk about potentially imbalanced things in Dominion.


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BRAVEYpl0x

Senior Member

10-02-2011

AP Shaco IS frustrating to play against, but I don't feel he is game-breaking. He is a very strong dom champ for sure, but playing smart and being attentive are your best tools vs him.

Idk about you guys, but I am glad to see to revival of AP Shaco. Dominion really brings out a lot of builds and champs that I miss seeing (Twitch, AD Sion, Glass Canon Crit GP etc.)