Idea: Increase the diminishing returns of speed on Dominion

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Shini Laser

Senior Member

10-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by gh0st tuRD View Post
As the same tools are available to both teams, anyone complaining about this is a wiener.
Say, as Zilean, I get Boots of Mobility, 4 Zeals, and Priscilla's. With absolutely 0 DR on Speed, if I am correct, I would sit at a lovely 700+ CONSTANT speed without Ghost or the Speed Shrine. The problem is, even against most character who have a legitimate reason to pick up a PD, I am moving 75% faster than them. BDing should be a strategy, no one will disagree - but it shouldn't be a case where preventing one BD only leads to the BDer harassing your team by going elsewhere at such a fast rate that, sans a few champions, you won't be able to chase.


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BeardRex

Senior Member

10-01-2011

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Originally Posted by Kickerz View Post
I do not understand what you are suggesting. You are asking for a soft movement cap to be a part of the Dominion global buff. But speedy champions are always going to be more speedy, and will hit that cap nonetheless while less speedy champs will still struggle to reach that cap.

I am not against your idea -yet-, I just do not understand it.
There already IS a soft movement cap.

It's okay. Math is hard.


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JoeDuo

Senior Member

10-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shini Laser View Post
Say, as Zilean, I get Boots of Mobility, 4 Zeals, and Priscilla's. With absolutely 0 DR on Speed, if I am correct, I would sit at a lovely 700+ CONSTANT speed without Ghost or the Speed Shrine. The problem is, even against most character who have a legitimate reason to pick up a PD, I am moving 75% faster than them. BDing should be a strategy, no one will disagree - but it shouldn't be a case where preventing one BD only leads to the BDer harassing your team by going elsewhere at such a fast rate that, sans a few champions, you won't be able to chase.
What has Priscilla's Blessing got to do with 'CONSTANT speed'?
Also, a champion that builds extreme mobility will be weak in combat, that player becomes a mouse and you a cat.


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BeardRex

Senior Member

10-01-2011

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Originally Posted by JoeDuo View Post
What has Priscilla's Blessing got to do with 'CONSTANT speed'?
Also, a champion that builds extreme mobility will be weak in combat, that player becomes a mouse and you a cat.
It's not about speed being OP. It's not about who wins. Why don't people understand that?

There is more to game design than balance. Stealth isn't getting a remake because it was OP. Read this:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=293417


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Jadarok

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Senior Member

10-01-2011

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I think it would help out with a huge amount of the frustration that some people are experiencing in Dominion. It's not that it is impossible to win against super speedy champs, it's just annoying
I just think it's too early to make this kind of observation. In my personal games, I only see speedy champs being a problem when teammates constantly overextend, leaving us open for back caps.

If both teams over extended and constantly trying to solo-ninja 5-cap, then yes, it'll get annoying that the team with the faster champs seems to be winning. However, I think that's more of an issue with a teams strategy or understanding of the metagame than a broken game mechanic.

I think we have to be careful what we mean by "abuse". Some champs have extra speed for a reason. To make up for a lack of other disadvantages. In a game like this, where mobility is viable, if you nerf the speed issue to much, there will be no point in taking Speedy champs or stacking speed items on speedy champs. Which could then mean back dooring in general won't be viable at all. It'll be 5v5 Tanky DPS sitting on 2 points, constantly battling for Windmill.

What is the exact point we can nerf this Speedy gameplay, without making it pointless and just removing that tactic completely from Dominion? Or is this exactly what you want? To remove the super fast backing capping tactic.


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BeardRex

Senior Member

10-01-2011

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Originally Posted by Jadarok View Post
I just think it's too early to make this kind of observation. In my personal games, I only see speedy champs being a problem when teammates constantly overextend, leaving us open for back caps.

If both teams over extended and constantly trying to solo-ninja 5-cap, then yes, it'll get annoying that the team with the faster champs seems to be winning. However, I think that's more of an issue with a teams strategy or understanding of the metagame than a broken game mechanic.

I think we have to be careful what we mean by "abuse". Some champs have extra speed for a reason. To make up for a lack of other disadvantages. In a game like this, where mobility is viable, if you nerf the speed issue to much, there will be no point in taking Speedy champs or stacking speed items on speedy champs. Which could then mean back dooring in general won't be viable at all. It'll be 5v5 Tanky DPS sitting on 2 points, constantly battling for Windmill.

What is the exact point we can nerf this Speedy gameplay, without making it pointless and just removing that tactic completely from Dominion? Or is this exactly what you want? To remove the super fast backing capping tactic.
I'm not saying you have to completely homogenize the classes in terms of speed. And this is not about removing back capping as a playstyle. It's about reigning it in.
People don't ban Rammus because they don't know how to play against him. They ban him because they don't LIKE playing against him. Games are not always about what you can and cannot accomplish. Fun is a HUGE factor.

I also don't think they need to do anything extreme.

Increasing the diminishing returns a little at a time until they feel right for this game mode is all they should do.

Also, you should probably read the entire thread before posting. You wouldn't be asking so many questions.


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TouchinMyself

Senior Member

10-01-2011

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Originally Posted by Postal Twinkie View Post
I agree with this and had a lengthy conversation about it with other players. Currently champions like Rammus, Teemo, and Gangplank stacking zeals makes it very frustrating to play against.
And YI + MF. So tired of being unable to stop them from capping. A well played fast champ with zeals mobility boots, ghost and revive can really make a game just plain not fun by ninja capping without ever engaging in any sort of fight.


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Final Boss

Adjudicator

10-01-2011

So, if this gets done, I think all player with movespeed quintessences should be refunded that 6000 IP. On pantheon for example, with basic boots, movespeed quints and mastery, you are nearly at 415...405 I think. Long story short, this change would make movespeed quintessences, very expensive runes, 100% worthless. Overnerfing runes is really really annoying to see, because unlike champions, they pretty much never get buffed and balanced back into being viable, making it flushed IP. I've already lost at on of IP due to the mana regen rune nerfs, and never touch my health per level ones anymore either.....so please considering in the future, how much making runes worthless actually costs in IP that will never be used again.


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Jadarok

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Senior Member

10-01-2011

Quote:
People don't ban Rammus because they don't know how to play against him. They ban him because they don't LIKE playing against him. Games are not always about what you can and cannot accomplish. Fun is a HUGE factor.
Well this is more of a personal opinion rather than a systemic problem. I personally never had a problem playing against the likes of Rammus, Teemo, or Gangplank. Heck, Gangplank's Ult ticks me off more than his speed. If anything that kind of gameplay those heroes bring makes it more fun sometimes. Makes those cliffhangers are the more suspenseful.

Quote:
So, if this gets done, I think all player with movespeed quintessences should be refunded that 6000 IP. On pantheon for example, with basic boots, movespeed quints and mastery, you are nearly at 415...405 I think. Long story short, this change would make movespeed quintessences, very expensive runes, 100% worthless. Overnerfing runes is really really annoying to see, because unlike champions, they pretty much never get buffed and balanced back into being viable, making it flushed IP. I've already lost at on of IP due to the mana regen rune nerfs, and never touch my health per level ones anymore either.....so please considering in the future, how much making runes worthless actually costs in IP that will never be used again.
That's a very good point. You would be in effect, cutting the value of a lot of peoples spent IP. Take it from a guy that's been grinding out a full Energy rune build for Shen...IP can be a big deal.


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BeardRex

Senior Member

10-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Boss View Post
So, if this gets done, I think all player with movespeed quintessences should be refunded that 6000 IP. On pantheon for example, with basic boots, movespeed quints and mastery, you are nearly at 415...405 I think. Long story short, this change would make movespeed quintessences, very expensive runes, 100% worthless. Overnerfing runes is really really annoying to see, because unlike champions, they pretty much never get buffed and balanced back into being viable, making it flushed IP. I've already lost at on of IP due to the mana regen rune nerfs, and never touch my health per level ones anymore either.....so please considering in the future, how much making runes worthless actually costs in IP that will never be used again.
They would only be changing it on dominion.

By your logic they should refund MR runes because of the dominion buff, or refund IP for eve because they nerfed her.

I'm sure you use many other characters other than max speed characters. MS quints will still be useful on them.