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Breaking the D

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BigDaddyDelish

Senior Member

09-28-2011

A lot of players are waking up and realizing that the best offense is a good defense.

But when you are on the side that only has the 2 points, what have you been doing to break it? I know it's not unbeatable, and you can bring it back into your favor. But it can be really tough to do so against a coordinated team and I'm wondering if anyone else has some good strats, and I'll give you some of what has been working for me.


I find this is where picks like Maokai, or just straight up bringing Garrison is REALLY handy. You make the turret pretty much ineffective with Garrison, and while yeah you can disable the turret by having a friend cap it sometimes you just need that extra weight to bring it in to take down their defense so you can cap the tower.


But it's still kinda rough. Champs like Anivia, or Alistar are insanely good at keeping points in their favor. I've gotten far by baiting the wall/Ali ult and then going in for the kill, but breaking a solid defensive line-up can be very difficult to do.

Riven is by far my best character at dealing with this though. She's my best character period so maybe I should just play nothing but her, but I can straight up obliterate defenders if I have a bit of back-up. Her immense damage output and in-battle mobility go a long way. Kayle I find can also break a tough defense with proper use of her ult, and Poppy probably could deal with this too.


And for the love of God don't say bd as Rammus/Eve/whatever. It straight doesn't work against players who aren't morons.


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Hobocop

Senior Member

09-28-2011

The importance of characters with good ranged harass or poke for breaking a good defense shouldn't be ignored.


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ArajTheSummoner

Senior Member

09-28-2011

I main yorick and he's godly at everything (huehuehue i love this guy), and a constant stream of ghouls into the defending line is pretty useful at wearing them down. Health packs also restore mana, so monopolizing these can break down defenders slowly.

To do it quickly, rumble's really good for creating a "zone" that they must stay out of with his ult, and ap bursters are good too. GP ult's not bad, but it's usually better used as a global cap-stopper. Swain is my second main, and if you land that looong range snare, it's basically an instakill if ignite is up.


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MochaChocaKon

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Quote:
BigDaddyRelish:
And for the love of God don't say bd as Rammus/Eve/whatever. It straight doesn't work against players who aren't morons.


I figured this out the hard way


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TormentedCheese

Member

09-28-2011

Send in 4 people on a node to take it. If they try to adjust, send the 5th person to take one of the other towers that will be left undefended.


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Stralucire

Senior Member

09-28-2011

Do they keep a stationary defender (ex: Maokai) at Windmill? Forget the top. Rush 4 players on bottom, keep 1 assassin in the jungle to counter backdoors on your home bases. Their team is already 4 strong at its best that way. More likely 3 strong since you can expect one of them to keep attempting ninja grabs. If their top D comes down to help defend bottom: shift one player into the jungle, have your assassin backdoor Windmill. Give them back their bottom at this point if you need to do so to keep your home bases. Better to hold 3 solid bases then stretch thin on 4.

Do they keep roaming defenders in the jungle or did they stack global champs? That's trickier. First, it's essential that you don't lose your middle or else you kiss all the momentum on your pushes goodbye. Keep a jungle roamer ready to ghost back and block it. Second, mostly follow the ebb and flow. You'll need to start with a sneaky backdoor or promote+minion push to grab some attention-- it will grab attention. (Note: it's much smarter to abandon a backdoor and kite into the jungle than lose the tower and die.) After that, just keep pushing the areas they leave. Survival is important here. If your team dies on every push you won't keep their D on their toes enough. After some time or a few enemy kills or some wasted global ults you'll pick up a tower. If they decide to stick 1 stationary defender on top and bottom, then group up 4 strong and refer to the aforementioned strategy.

This is a bit theorycrafting heavy, but I've seen both systems work for and against my teams multiple times. It really comes down to adaptability and attention. Keep a sharp eye on the minimap - know where your teammates and the opponents are at all times - and be ready to switch strats on the fly, that does most of the work.


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BRAVEYpl0x

Senior Member

09-29-2011

Don't underestimate the Fog of War! You may feel that standing around in a brush or in the jungle is a waste of time on CS, but if they lose track of the majority of the team for long enough, the defense can get really antsy and prone to back doors and distractions.


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Simply X

Senior Member

09-29-2011

Packing Garrison is extremely important for breaking a good defense, just as you said.

I find that picking off people who stray too far from the turret, and subsequently baiting the rest out of its range is what works best. But I mostly play Pantheon so it's easy to do with his surprise stun.

If you do want to take a turret that has defenders I would recommend coordinating your team to focus down the most dangerous and squishiest individual, while standard Summoner's Rift tactics don't quite apply to Dominion, I find that in team fights the basics still ring true, send in your beefy champions first to tank and/or garrison the turret, and then follow up by taking out their damage dealers. If they run towards the health packs, let them get it unless you can kill him in a few steps, focus down someone else if you can't because you'll just be hit from behind by his friends while you try and chase him, when the guy who went for the health pack comes back focus him down again, the small amount of healing he got won't save him if he so desperately needed it in the first place.

You may want to consider having one person try and cap the turret while the fighting is going on, just to keep it from attacking you. This should generally be the champions with less damage output or defensive capabilities than everyone else there, IE: Champions like Eve. This should really only be done if you lack Garrison and fear the turret's damage output. This can also spur the defenders to drop what they're doing and stop them, which can give you the edge.


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Mageganker

Senior Member

09-29-2011

Bring a train of minions, bring maokai and MANDROP THAT ****


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Weirding

Senior Member

09-29-2011

Gather up your 4 strongest champions at the capture point.

Send a strong 1v1 champion to attack their middle node. Someone with a speed boost would be best.

Have the other 3 champions pushing the creep line up.

When the creep line gets close to the middle point, have that champion near the enemy middle point come out and tag it. This will usually result in one defender falling back.

The solo champion doesn't fight the defender. They just head into the jungle and prepare to attack from the back of the enemy's lines. The 3 champions pushing the creep wave initiate as the strong 1v1 champion tries to kill a damage dealer.

If you get a kill, keep going. Have someone stop to "shut off" the tower every so often. If things go poorly FALL BACK and push the creep wave again. The enemy is hurt, but they can't leave the tower to heal or whomever is pushing will take it.

Wear them down.

There is an alternate strategy: have bottom push the creep wave hard and the strong 1v1 champion and him try to get that point. If it doesn't work (i.e. bottom is too strong), both return to base and RUN SCREAMING at the middle point. The 5 champions dive on the 4 defenders and try to get the point.

This will result in bottom being lost (if the enemy bottom defender is smart), but it's easier to get back bottom than it is to take top.

It's important to have respawns push to take bottom back very quickly, and for the top defenders to get patched up and PUSH THE CREEP WAVE HARD but not actually get into a fight over the enemy middle.


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