Why don't randoms turtle...ever?

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coffeerox

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarithe View Post
I love how everyone discredits the idea of turtling, saying that 'its not the way it's meant to be played.' Really? Capture and HOLD is not meant to be defensive based at some point? I played a match last night with a couple friends and a couple randoms where we were losing 388-50ish. We took 3 points and turtled and won the match. It absolutely has its place in the game. Do I think you should always turtle? Absolutely not, it'd be beyond boring, but turtling is a viable strategy at some points of the match. The true way to play Dominion imho is to find that good balance between aggression and turtling to where you always control at least 3 points, but try for that fourth one if a big teamfight goes your way.
Exactly. You get the 3, then you test the waters and go for the rest, if things aren't looking good on that front, you continue to hold 3. Or you get 3, keep pressing the 4th and 5th and they will be pressured into trying to ninja another node but it's easily read and stopped.


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Kyryck

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarithe View Post
I love how everyone discredits the idea of turtling, saying that 'its not the way it's meant to be played.' Really? Capture and HOLD is not meant to be defensive based at some point? I played a match last night with a couple friends and a couple randoms where we were losing 388-50ish. We took 3 points and turtled and won the match. It absolutely has its place in the game. Do I think you should always turtle? Absolutely not, it'd be beyond boring, but turtling is a viable strategy at some points of the match. The true way to play Dominion imho is to find that good balance between aggression and turtling to where you always control at least 3 points, but try for that fourth one if a big teamfight goes your way.
No. What people (well, me anyway) are saying is that defending has its place. But when people coming out of the gate blindly insist on defending three points as the 'one true strategy' that wins games it actually loses you games to any team with any brains or skills.

I'm all for defending when it's the right strategy to use. But not on this blind insistence that it's the right strategy every single time, which is what these people who make these threads are advocating.


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coffeerox

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyryck View Post
No. What people (well, me anyway) are saying is that defending has its place. But when people coming out of the gate blindly insist on defending three points as the 'one true strategy' that wins games it actually loses you games to any team with any brains or skills.

I'm all for defending when it's the right strategy to use. But not on this blind insistence that it's the right strategy every single time, which is what these people who make these threads are advocating.
no one's saying that it's the right strategy every time, but you will want to cap 3 minimum every game. There's lots of different strategies, but all of it will revolve around getting more than they do.


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Kyryck

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeerox View Post
no one's saying that it's the right strategy every time, but you will want to cap 3 minimum every game. There's lots of different strategies, but all of it will revolve around getting more than they do.
Quote:
Is it so hard to follow this get 3 and turtle, or defend rule?
Yes, people are saying EXACTLY that it's the right strategy every time, hence the quote from the original poster. Others are trying to clue them in that it's not the only strategy that wins games.


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Floods of Colour

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Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyryck View Post
Lol. You're like the old man in a rocking chair on his porch with the shotgun yelling at kids to get off his lawn while listening to some farm report radio station! Lol.

How about this? Based on your match history:

Kog'Maw.
Shush.
L0L fail.


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Altarnos

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Senior Member

09-27-2011

I also agree that turtling is necessary at times and particularly against specific team comps, but turtling is incredibly easy to counter. When the enemy is turtling top, they generally stay on the node, and it is very easy to harass them, even with low range harass like Shaco's shiv. If they avoid the harass, you start capping, forcing them to come closer into harass range and repeating this entails a half HP enemy and a almost neutralised node.

When met with defenders, such as Heimerdinger, this does become harder, but he is limited to the range and damage from his turrets, as they compose the majority of his damage. These turrets have I think a 15-20 second CD for parts, and only tank a few seconds to kill. Once his turrets are on CD, he is left vulnerable and can be easily killed, purely because he is caging himself to a node, and once the node is captured and Heimerdinger is without his turtling mechanism, it is hard for Heimer to re-establish that point, as he isn't the strongest aggressor. This is just an example of a turtler, and whilst he does not normally take top, he is still one of the most viable defenders yet is still easily countered.


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MrToasty

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altorr View Post
turtling isnt fun
It is if you're Rammus.


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Argodis

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Yup, people don't understand that you have to defend to win.

Maybe you'll get lucky and cap all 5 bases and hold on for the win. However, that's unlikely to happen.

What's more likely to happen is as you're going for that 4th or 5th base, your allies get killed and the enemy starts recapturing bases while you're dead.

This is the main reason why there are so many comebacks in Dominion. People don't understand that you only need to hold 3 capture points to win.

Yes, playing defensive isn't the only way to win. It is the safest though.

Just like playing passive in SR isn't the only way to win. But playing passive is the safest way to victory which is why everyone(high elo) adopts this strategy.