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Why don't randoms turtle...ever?

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Jagoob

Member

09-27-2011

Turtling seems good but most all of my wins have been from more roaming who defend when needed instead of turtling. Honestly from what I can tell k/d ratio is not very important in dominion since it doesn't snowball that big and gold/level differentials even in "blowout" games are pretty small. All that seems to matter is knocking points down by any means necessary.


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coffeerox

Senior Member

09-27-2011

the goal of the game is to drain the nexus to 0. If you hold 3 points, theirs drain while yours doesn't. Holding more than 3 makes theirs drain even faster. The optimal strategy is to capture 3, then if the team fights are looking good, go get 4th and 5th. if you start to lose the team fights, fall back to 3 nodes and fiercely defend those 3 points no matter what.

This mode is pretty much exactly like Arathi Basin except it has MOBA elements in it (like towers, on site item purchases and so on) In every game I've won, it was always because we won the team fights and we got 3 and held it.


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PTL

Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
coffeerox:
This mode is pretty much exactly like Arathi Basin except it has MOBA elements in it (like towers, on site item purchases and so on).


This is a fundamentally wrong conclusion. The only thing arathi and dominion have in common is 5 points. Dominion is specificly made to prevent turtleing.

Dominion is a smaller map with speed boost witch make attacking points much easier the AB.
The crystal scar buff that gives armor pen and magic pen makes defending person have a disadvatage
There is no respawn at the nodes so it is much harder to defend then AB.
The ability to push minion waves and the spells promote and garason(offensive) allow for easier assaults
Items like persillas blessing and boot of mobility encourage rapid turnovers rather then turtleing strats.

If you are trying to turtle you are fighting against everything the map was made to do.


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undreaming

Senior Member

09-27-2011

I know what you're talking about, people run blindlessly while we contorl 3 bases and one enemy team backdoors mid capture point they all going there when out other capture points are being defenseless. I lost 10 games in a row yesterday, because people are so bad and are chasing for the kills ;-/


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JoeDuo

Senior Member

09-27-2011

The 'wonderful' resource score system is ruining Dominion, that's what.


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coffeerox

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
PTL:
This is a fundamentally wrong conclusion. The only thing arathi and dominion have in common is 5 points. Dominion is specificly made to prevent turtleing.

Dominion is a smaller map with speed boost witch make attacking points much easier the AB.
The crystal scar buff that gives armor pen and magic pen makes defending person have a disadvatage
There is no respawn at the nodes so it is much harder to defend then AB.
The ability to push minion waves and the spells promote and garason(offensive) allow for easier assaults
Items like persillas blessing and boot of mobility encourage rapid turnovers rather then turtleing strats.

If you are trying to turtle you are fighting against everything the map was made to do.

What you're forgetting is the human factor. On both games, people want to control all points of the map. Only if 1 team pubstomps the entire team, which does happen on occasion. Both games share these same type of occurrences. Both games also share the same basic principle, capture and hold.

Do you want to know why the windmill is rushed at the top? Same reason why Blacksmith is rushed. You control that, you control the outcome of the game. It's a critical area of the map where it's not easy to get to, but if you don't have it, you lose the game.

On AB, the BS is the best place on the map to respawn. Once you have that, + LM and Farm or Stables, you are in a really good position to win the game if you held those spots. Yes, both maps have differences in them (some huge), but it's the same type of game. Capture and hold.

Another similar one featured on WoW is Eye of the Storm. Another (deceptively) cap and hold game. You would think that holding two, plus flag returns is the fastest way to winning the map, but in actuality, holding 3 towers and defending them is the best way to win the map. It cripples their flag returns and it makes yours much more effective.

Are you getting the general idea yet? You're not supposed to be all over the map capping things to win the game. You're supposed to hold 3 so that they don't drain your nexus. That will involve a hell of a battle at important points in the map, just the same as in AB or EotS.


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Kyryck

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
coffeerox:
What you're forgetting is the human factor. On both games, people want to control all points of the map. Only if 1 team pubstomps the entire team, which does happen on occasion. Both games share these same type of occurrences. Both games also share the same basic principle, capture and hold.

Do you want to know why the windmill is rushed at the top? Same reason why Blacksmith is rushed. You control that, you control the outcome of the game. It's a critical area of the map where it's not easy to get to, but if you don't have it, you lose the game.

On AB, the BS is the best place on the map to respawn. Once you have that, + LM and Farm or Stables, you are in a really good position to win the game if you held those spots. Yes, both maps have differences in them (some huge), but it's the same type of game. Capture and hold.

Another similar one featured on WoW is Eye of the Storm. Another (deceptively) cap and hold game. You would think that holding two, plus flag returns is the fastest way to winning the map, but in actuality, holding 3 towers and defending them is the best way to win the map. It cripples their flag returns and it makes yours much more effective.

Are you getting the general idea yet? You're not supposed to be all over the map capping things to win the game. You're supposed to hold 3 so that they don't drain your nexus. That will involve a hell of a battle at important points in the map, just the same as in AB or EotS.


Enjoy losing then when you come across actual thinking people. Because they'll destroy you.

Every.
Single.
Time.

You 'all must defend!' bots are even more irritating in this game mode than in Arathi Basin. I made a nice Grand Marshal push off ******s who would try 'all defend three points!' while we simply stomped their asses with a coordinated rush then camped them at their base.

Same thing here. I've already had quite a few memorable games against idiots who you can tell are simply defending. So you take their points as a group and, since they don't want to leave their precious defending strategy, they end up sitting in their spawn blaming everybody else but themselves for failing to adapt to the strategy the other team used.


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coffeerox

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
Enjoy losing then when you come across actual thinking people. Because they'll destroy you.
Actual thinking people in solo queue?
Quote:
You 'all must defend!' bots are even more irritating in this game mode than in Arathi Basin.
But you can't deny that, to actually win the game, you DO have to control 3 or more points. You can't lose 1, 3 is the minimum. Therefore, you HAVE to hold a MINIMUM of 3 points in order to win the game.

Due to respawn points, controlling the last two is much harder than you actually think it is. If you want to turn the game into a 5 on 5, sure, we can see that you are doing that, and we can do the same thing. In fact, we'll counter your 5 with ambushes, CC, dps in the jungle and proceed to take every point on the map, then you REALLY lose. I've had this happen, both on my side, and against my team. If you want me to get smart with it, we'll bait you with a cap, when you come in to defend, you'll get mopped up in the process.


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JasmineChen

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
coffeerox:
the goal of the game is to drain the nexus to 0. If you hold 3 points, theirs drain while yours doesn't. Holding more than 3 makes theirs drain even faster. The optimal strategy is to capture 3, then if the team fights are looking good, go get 4th and 5th. if you start to lose the team fights, fall back to 3 nodes and fiercely defend those 3 points no matter what.


Why did this get downvoted?

Personally, winning is one of the most fun things in any game. I realize it's not for everyone.


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Altarnos

Senior Member

09-27-2011

Quote:
coffeerox:
Actual thinking people in solo queue?
But you can't deny that, to actually win the game, you DO have to control 3 or more points. You can't lose 1, 3 is the minimum. Therefore, you HAVE to hold a MINIMUM of 3 points in order to win the game.



Ok here is where you are wrong, you do not have to have three points to tick away the enemies nexus. It can be 2-1/0, as long as you have MORE points, and considering roamers get about 50% more neutralises than caps, your strategy suddenly becomes null, because you have to defend three points, whereas they can 5 man roam and group focus you easily.