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[Guide] Gentleman Tibbers is Off to the Ball: A Laning-Focused Annie Guide

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Kyuketsuki

Recruiter

06-12-2010

Quote:
Sniperness:
Sorry but this guide is still wrong. You underestimate your opponents too much, and hey, maybe rightfully so if you've been getting matched up against pushovers. The thing is, Annie is about burst. I don't care if that burst is against 5 people or against 1, the theory doesn't change. Annie doesn't have ANY chasing mechanisms outside of her stun. By the time you open up with stun and launch your other two spells your opponent is ready to break free and escape via any summoner spells and any innate mobility methods they might have themselves, something which Annie doesn't. W does more damage than Q. That's a fact. If you level up Q over W then you aren't bursting as hard as you can and you aren't going to be getting as many one-shot kills on your lane-mate and/or will lack the pressure from pushing them out once they realize you took Q over W and know you can't OHKO them anymore.

Don't really see how you can argue with that above statement.

As for opening up with Q. Sure, it might work, congrats. It's a bad habit to fall into though. Q takes time to travel and gives your opponent those few extra split seconds to think about how to escape, get ready to cleanse, flash, check the minimap for allies, etc. etc. Opening up with a W or R stun is instant and not only takes the enemy by surprise but sends them into a state of panic where the first thought to come to their mind is usually the course of action they will take, even if it might be bad. Also, anytime R is up, you should be opening up with R stun. ALWAYS. Why? Tibbers constantly burns your enemy and will attack them as they are stunned in place. Opening up with Q makes you lose out on this time tibbers could be damaging your enemy.

Hope that helps you. Btw, summoner spells are Flash and Ignite. Not Teleport and Flash. "Non-negotiable," (see reasons pertaining to "bursting" above.)


First you're argument about Q > W doesn't hold up. E is good for 2 good things and 2 bad. It's good for AOE be it champions, or harvesting creep. The second is the return of leveling by power is slightly better. The two bad things are first you have to be close to use it, annie getting close with stun up will not happen against a good player, and secondly it costs mana. Now hold on, when I mean it costs mana, I mean you could be free hitting with disintegrate which you will argue well I have a level of that, but it means you can't push a lane near as fast while they are gone for the price of nothing.

Second, Q > W because typically in ganks how many people do you target? Yes, typically one champion, meaning you can open with the ranged stun of Q. If they have an excape mechanism you won't have wasted Tibbers, plus you have greater range.

Third, In relation to my second point contradictory to your argument Q > W for burst, you will ask WHY, because of cooldown. Your arguement is that Incinerate does more damage and you are correct in this it does -5/+15/+35/+50/+65 damage by level compared to Disintegrate, but overall Q has a cd of 4 seconds, and W has 8 seconds (regardless of level) so in essence if you use Q to stun after you blow your other spells it WILL be back up in time to use again therefore having Q leveled over W effectively does more damage per second.

Fourth, I believe that Ignite is a crutch, and flash makes you overconfident. Teleport is a much better skill than ignite, since it's general use (due to low damage/length for mind games) doesn't kick in until level 4 and ends around 11, and in all honestly you don't need it, just harass a little more if you can't live without getting a kill. If you are doing your job right your opponent should be scared to farm, this effectively shuts down most players both in game and more importantly emotionally. Even if you don't get the "kills" because you need ignite, you've forced an opponent to leave the lane (typically uncontested) for at least 3 minion waves. Annie is one of the best last hitters in the game, meaning you will get at least 4 kills per wave for about a total of ~250 gold plus most importantly tower hits. Losing a turret gives not only a 100 gold reward to the entire team it also sends a demoralizing blow to the opposing team. Where as if you get forced to return to base having teleport means you miss the rest of that minion wave and immediatly you're back at full health ready to push again.

Oh just so you know for a regular kill ~300 gold = ~15 minion kills at level 1, so killing is only better than farming if you must feed a snowball item that you have already purchased.


In summary

1.) Disintegrate is better than Incinerate
a.) It is a better farming tool
b.) Typically Single Target in Ganks so a single target is better
c.) Due to cooldown, higher levels of Q actually do more damage

2.) Ignite is a crutch, and people should learn to pick spells that will help more

3.) Farming uncontested is better than killing/ganking

4.) This is FlamingHito's guide not your's, you may disagree and provide a counterpoint to improve the guide but the original poster has already responded to your comments.

5.) If you want to assert your own points to the extent you have you can make your own guide

6.) Please if you must argue state new points.
a.) Don't restate already mentioned ones espcially restating your own old points
b.) Be constructive
c.) Be polite.


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DalzK

Senior Member

06-13-2010

I personally always take flash/teleport - but flash/ignite is just as good.

Quote:
1.) Disintegrate is better than Incinerate
a.) It is a better farming tool
b.) Typically Single Target in Ganks so a single target is better
c.) Due to cooldown, higher levels of Q actually do more damage
A) First of all, I would argue with you that you should only level Q up to level 3, then level W to the max. The reason being is W does more damage AND is AoE - therefore W is better for team fights as you can target more people with it and do AoE stun. Also, you dont need anything past a level 3 Q to last hit minions half-decently and farm well.

B) Yes single targets are better for ganks but if there are two people in a lane and you guys want to focus one of them would you rather have one of them stunned, or both of them stunned? Its very situational - If they are bunched together use W, if not use Q.

C) Annie is about Burst - not about doing a good amount of damage over a period of 8 seconds. I would rather do more damage over a period of 4 seconds than do more damage over a period of 8 seconds. And you say Q does more damage because of the 2x better cooldown. Well W can hit 5x the amount of people (although realistically that doesnt happen. It usually is easy to hit two people however, therefore dealing more than twice the damage Q does).

Quote:
2.) Ignite is a crutch, and people should learn to pick spells that will help more


2. How the hell is Ignite a "Crutch". You never explained yourself on that point. Ignite simply gives allows you to burst with more damage.....that doesnt make it a crutch. You just have more damage output thats all. I always use teleport but that justs because i've been using it since and so it suits my play style better. They both have their advantages/disadvantages.


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laundrymonster

Senior Member

06-15-2010

He means that ignite is a crutch because if you rely on ignite then you won't get the feel for a normal burst kill. You'll be used to bursting them down to low, then hoping that ignite can finish it off. Which means that you'd have to switch halfway through the game when ignite turns off as a damage dealer.

But anyway, you two keep arguing.

On the aspect of the revolver. I dunno if you've covered this but it's generally a really really terrible item. Spell vamp is kind of useless for any champ. Also, I've only used Will of the Ancients as a sixth item when i've been out of things to buy. The extra AP helps a tad. But generally a meh item.

All around an excellent guide sir. I use flash ignite as well but will give teleport a shot, you make a valid point with it.


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SquishyDragoon

Member

06-17-2010

Quote:
Sniperness:
The ignorant -1s and +1s being stupidly applied in this thread are what make me wish there was a level/skill restriction as to who can post "guides." Just add me in game and I can demonstrate to you first-hand how to play Annie since obviously my words have no effect on you.

inb4 -1s


lol at arash xD


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Tanerian

Senior Member

06-21-2010

Quote:
DalzK:
I personally always take flash/teleport - but flash/ignite is just as good.

A) First of all, I would argue with you that you should only level Q up to level 3, then level W to the max.


First in reply to the OP. Pretty good guide, should help many out. Have you ever considered Cooldown Quints? I tend to find that I'm able to survive just find without the HP quints, and the Cooldown quints insure that with Golem buff I have max cooldown. Your thoughts?

As for the Quote, I have to agree with it completely. You level Q to 3, then max W. Q at level 3 will take out a minion from half health pretty much, makes last hitting trivial. After that W scales better and is better for pushing a lane when your enemy dissapears, also gives you more initial Burst.

I personally do not level E until I have to, since that tends to be the time team fights/random ganks start happening anyways. Before that time, I'm rarely in a position where I need the extra shielding or damage. So basically I max Q/W/R then E last.


I'm leaning with the others on the whole Opening with Q/R thing. The main points have been discussed, but something I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that opening with R means Tibbers will get an extra melee hit or 2 in, and they are actually pretty powerful attacks. Makes that quick burst go faster


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flaminghito

Senior Member

06-26-2010

Updated the guide, and it's a fairly major change. Removed flash as a summoner spell suggestion, and changed the early game part of the guide quite a bit as a result. It feels kind of weird after playing a careful-burst sort of Annie in lane, but give the constant-barrage-of-Q's a try - you're not using that mana early game anyway and it's one of those tactics that serves as an effective demoralizer.

Also:

Quote:
Have you ever considered Cooldown Quints? I tend to find that I'm able to survive just find without the HP quints, and the Cooldown quints insure that with Golem buff I have max cooldown. Your thoughts?


I think that with the change to the early game guide it'll be a little more obvious why I prefer flat HP quints. Surviving is one thing, but you need to have a certain minimum health to exert any lane presence, and threatening stun-Q's to keep them from last hitting only works if you've got the health to survive if they run at you instead of away.

In fact, I think I'm going to remove Magic Pen as a suggestion for Quints and explain why I think Flat HP is so useful.


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Kalimar

Senior Member

07-04-2010

Quote:
Tanerian:
First in reply to the OP. Pretty good guide, should help many out. Have you ever considered Cooldown Quints? I tend to find that I'm able to survive just find without the HP quints, and the Cooldown quints insure that with Golem buff I have max cooldown. Your thoughts?

As for the Quote, I have to agree with it completely. You level Q to 3, then max W. Q at level 3 will take out a minion from half health pretty much, makes last hitting trivial. After that W scales better and is better for pushing a lane when your enemy dissapears, also gives you more initial Burst.

I personally do not level E until I have to, since that tends to be the time team fights/random ganks start happening anyways. Before that time, I'm rarely in a position where I need the extra shielding or damage. So basically I max Q/W/R then E last.


I'm leaning with the others on the whole Opening with Q/R thing. The main points have been discussed, but something I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that opening with R means Tibbers will get an extra melee hit or 2 in, and they are actually pretty powerful attacks. Makes that quick burst go faster


You always open up with tibers...especially if you have your stun. The extra damage could be the difference between you dying, them dying....or them running away..

THe only reason why i might not open with tibbers is if the champion is out of range and i have to stop them with my fireball...


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flaminghito

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Guide has gotten a fairly large update, check it out.

A video supplement might be coming soon...


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