Problem Champs in Dominion.

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Tenmar

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightmareTaco View Post
Fighting Akali? Buy Lightbringer or a Hextech Sweeper. Ta-da, Akali's much less scary.
Except that only enables you to fight her. The other half and this is what makes most akali players fail in SR is that they aren't able to get their items as they are either denied from gold or exp or both.

In dominion, you can't deny those important factors so even if akali does suck and die 40 times she still at end game will have an item build that devastates the enemy team.


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Quantumprophecy

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eefell View Post
I didnt say any of them were OP, I said they were problematic, hell the second half of the post is champs that are hurting. Yes there will be strats, there will be counters, there will be a database for builds and so on and so forth.

The fact that people have almost automatically picked up on champs in Dominion and have been doing really really well with them despite Dominion just coming out in Beta does say something about those champs.

Feedback is feedback. It is impossible for them to pick up on everything internally eg Release Xin, Old Jax, the champs that got beaten half to death with the nerf bat. The more info they get the better off the game will be. There ARE problems and it STILL has things and champs to be balanced for it, hell SR is STILL being balanced.

Also dude Enter, works wonders if you want people to read.
The reason people are doing well with these champs is because they are using the simplest of strategies, bum rush undefended towers and cap them. Of course rammus, eve, shaco, kass, and who ever else are going to do well with this. Right now there are only 3 strats: kill enemies and then cap their tower, backdoor towers, and defend a tower. These are the 3 basic strat's used, and all your listed champs accel at one or more of them.

It doesn't make them problematic. I'll give a perfect example. When LoL first came out do you know what strat was the best? Push teams. They utilized the most basic principle in the game, which was push towers. The best champs at the time were Sivir and Allistar because of this. But strategies have developed from there. People found counters to that basic strat and things evolved from there.


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Aluminar

Senior Member

09-25-2011

riot has formally stated that they will never do champion balancing based around dom, which is good because most good champs in dom suck in SR. if you dont want to play the good dom champs, play SR =.="


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Eefell

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantumprophecy View Post
The reason people are doing well with these champs is because they are using the simplest of strategies, bum rush undefended towers and cap them. Of course rammus, eve, shaco, kass, and who ever else are going to do well with this. Right now there are only 3 strats: kill enemies and then cap their tower, backdoor towers, and defend a tower. These are the 3 basic strat's used, and all your listed champs accel at one or more of them.

It doesn't make them problematic. I'll give a perfect example. When LoL first came out do you know what strat was the best? Push teams. They utilized the most basic principle in the game, which was push towers. The best champs at the time were Sivir and Allistar because of this. But strategies have developed from there. People found counters to that basic strat and things evolved from there.
And if you dont force people to use different strats other than the ones that are the easiest and most effective (and they ARE the most effective for now due to the balancing) they will not use any other strat. And yes THEY ARE PROBLEMATIC. Most of it due to the increase of gold gain meaning no mater how many times you kill them or try to shut them down they will still be able to comeback with just as much of a build as you.

I could go into detail why those particular champs are problematic in Dominion but frankly I dont want post to go on forever. However just ignoring the problems wont do anything. Sorry but If I see a problem Im going to say something and not just hope tha *** will go away latter on.


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Neekster

Junior Member

09-25-2011

play poppy in dominion he is literally the most op damage dealer right now in it. just saying


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Eefell

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluminar View Post
riot has formally stated that they will never do champion balancing based around dom, which is good because most good champs in dom suck in SR. if you dont want to play the good dom champs, play SR =.="
It has been throw around as a good idea to balance champs in Dominion through the buff, different buffs\Debuffs for different champs that way they can still continue to balance around SR.

Besides Id hate for this mode to turn into another Twisted Treeline that is completely ignored. If this thing wants to become big (which I think they do want it too) they have to implement some sort of balancing. Otherwise it is just a gimmick that brings nothing worth while to the table.


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Yamazaru90

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Rammus is the second best runner in Dominion. Blitzcrank takes first with Boots, FoN, Lich Bane or Tri Force and W spam


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Arandmoor

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eefell View Post
Basically this list of champs that become a big problem in this mode with reasons for it.

(In no particular order)

Akali - In SR she is fine, she takes a lot of kills to really become a super deadly force meaning a lot of gold. Well sense EVERYONE gets gold at a very high rate Akali gets a lota damage very fast and very early. She is also highly mobile, a massive plus in Dominion.
This is a tactical problem. Not a champion problem. If the opposing team has an akali, or a leblanc, or eve, or jax (you see where I'm going with this) they need to stick with other champions that can protect them. CS isn't SR. You can't park your carry in the middle of a minion wave to protect them from an assassin.

If you have a carry, you need to pair them with ramus, alistair, galio, or shen. It's not an option in CS. Adapt or die.

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Singed - Have you ever fought a Singed late game in SR? Ever wonder what it is like 5 mins. into a match? Yep Basically.
Singed is a lane bully. I've faced a bunch of singeds. When I was rumble, it was impossible to beat him. As cassiopia, he kind of melted so long as I didn't let him get into fling range. A number of times he flung me into prime ult-position.

That said, he's prime ban material unless you counter-pick him.
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Shaco. Hiem, and Teemo - Set them up on one point and have them never leave. Give them Garrison and watch them defend that point from anything short or a 4-man Rush. To quote The Master of Disguise "Turtle Turtle Turtle"
Shaco is a great anti-midder. If they have a mobile assassin running interference, shaco can pretty much shut them down hard. He's a great counter-akali pick IMO. He's also a great backdoor champ because his Q can jump walls. Pair it with flash and he's almost as annoying as twitch and eve.

More prime ban material.

Heim is counter-pick material. If they pick heimerdinger, you either counter him or suffer. Cassiopia hard counter's heimer pretty straight up. Turret < poison pool ten times out of ten. Add garrison and she can turret dive him with impunity. The best part is that he's so slow her Q is trivial to land.

Teemo is just squishy. You hard counter him with garrison and a phage. If the shrooms are pissing in your cheerios, buy a sight elixer and laugh at him.

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Xin, Jax, Annie - Basically most of the same problem as Akali. The main tactic against them is not to feed but with the gold increase ... well you get the picture.
Xin and Jax are countered on dom by mages with escapes. Cassiopia counters xin in dom pretty hard if she's built to survive the knock up. Malz can do much the same. In both cases however, their ults need to be up.

Xin is more ban-material IMO.

For jax...have your carry take a sword of the divine like you would in SR and jax just kind of QQs. That said, give him garrison and Jax is easily one of the, if not The, best turret diver in the game. Pack a frozen mallet or an entropy, garrison, build up your ult's passive on a minion some, leap in, tag the turret with garrison, and dive, dive, dive!!!

Ban material. Or you can counter-pick him. He still melts against mages. Annie makes him go away, cassiopia does not nice things to him if her ult is up...

Annie...haven't played against her yet. My friend had one on his team and she was her usual powerhouse.

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Gangplank - The same problems he has on SR but with the added bonus of never having to farm and being able to cockblock you from across the map.
GP is like Ashe and Ez. You use them to counterpick backdoor capp champs like twitch, eve, rammus, twisted fate, and pantheon.

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Now for the other side of the coin.

Cassi - Her main tactic is to stay behind people and poke to death anyone within range. However she is far too slow without landing her Q (which has now become incredibly hard for some reason), her slow while nice drains mana like there is no tomorrow and CD is too long to keep using it to defend herself, and her ulti while GREAT on SR lacks in Dominion from too long a CD, not big enough groups so on and so forth. She is about only good for defending but is a bit too squishy for the job, and if you miss your W your dead.
She's not too mobile in dom, but she can start with a tear which makes mana a non-issue (I never had any problems with mana. None whatsoever). Landing her Q isn't any more difficult than normal unless the enemy team is full of mobility *****s. She needs to stack CRD on dominion though because her primary use is winning skirmishes with her ult (and hard-countering heimerdinger with her W and ridiculous ratios).

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Sona, Soraka - With there gimped heals and the reduced healing debuff about the only thing they got is their mobility and damage respectively. They are also quite squishy with little defending themselves from someone running at them aside from allies and an ulti.
Haven't seen a sona yet, but her heal is just one small part of her kit. While her heal can't sustain, sustainment isn't really part of the dominion experience. Like cassiopia, her ult will win skirmishes. The difference between having a good sona and not will be the difference between fighting over that third point and scoring an ace after a large skirmish for a 5-cap that wins the game (much like cassiopia's ult only much easier to land).

Soraka is a lane bully in SR. In Dom you'll just level your heal last, hold your silence to interrupt an enemy burst combo, and abuse a hextech sweeper/reli's scepter combo. She'll work best with an assassin like akali, leblanc, or shaco when you help your team push the enemy team off of a tower. Between the slow and the sight-passive from the sweeper the enemy will have trouble positioning, and when they run your assassin will have a much easier time tracking them down unless he's on the other side of the map when they run. Also, despite the weakened heal, a soraka that stacks AP will still have a skirmish-winning heal. You just can't sustain with her. Only win skirmishes and bully people away from points.

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Nasus - The dude in this mode is a damage soak, no more no less.
IMO you're giving nassus too much credit. He's far from worth anything. Keep him in SR and leave him there. If you see a nassus on your team...report them for trolling.

Same goes for veigar unfortunately. Because he can't farm with his Q, he'll only under-perform. If he gained AP on assists, it wouldn't be so bad, but he'll be little more than an assist bot with his rage-cage.

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Miss Fortune - With no escape, one pitiful slow, and not nearly enough damage to compensate she is little more then MAYBE a runner but aside from that she gets torn apart.
Take 2/5 boots, an early phantom dancer, Priscilla's Blessing, and Ghost. Stick to mid and move from speed shrine to speed shrine. She should be the most annoying backdoorer in the game. Pair it with support-type items like the Lightbringer and Entropy/Frozen Mallet. She should help you win skirmishes.

Without an escape she can't carry. It doesn't make her useless. Dominion is a fast-paced game, and MF is easily the fastest champion in the game (wait for strut, hit a speed shrine, pop the active on priscilla's blessing, and use ghost. Make race car noises. Cap points).

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Dr. Mundo - Like Nasus he is a damage soak, at least in SR her had cleavers to harass in lane with. Now .... yea Mundo is not pleased.
Mundo is no worse in CS than he is in SR. He's a point defender. Grab a FoN, an Entropy, and win quests for your team. Don't try to take points unless they're either unguarded or you have a partner or two. Mundo has enough regeneration that he can take more chances than most and then recover while defending something important.


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Dreamspeak

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Senior Member

09-25-2011

I wholeheartedly disagree with your Cassiopeia point. Unless there's a Kassadin or talon on the other team, she happens to be my top pick for dominion. I've only gotten number 1 or 2 with her and have always had the most kills or close to that WITH the least amount of deaths. Poison during defense is exceptional and added with spell vamp, she is devastating in the game

Her ap ratios make it so that because the gold/exp is given almost evenly despite who is "fed" give her a very good advantage in getting items to boost her power.


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Aluminar

Senior Member

09-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eefell View Post
It has been throw around as a good idea to balance champs in Dominion through the buff, different buffs\Debuffs for different champs that way they can still continue to balance around SR.

Besides Id hate for this mode to turn into another Twisted Treeline that is completely ignored. If this thing wants to become big (which I think they do want it too) they have to implement some sort of balancing. Otherwise it is just a gimmick that brings nothing worth while to the table.
what it brings to the table is the ability to play people like eve, twitch, shen, shaco, heim & SO MANY OTHER overall weak champions and not be called a troll

I think it's balanced fine as it stands, because again, pretty much all bad dom champs rock SR and vice-versa

which is balance... sort of O.o"