Issue with how points are earned/lost

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Nideak

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasmutilizar View Post
>still talking about kdr.

It does not freaking matter people. you can win with everyone on your team having 30 deaths, if they are more strategic then you they will win. I don't care if you have 100 kills, if they hold more points they win. Deal with it, or go back to SR
Death's should matter in Dominion. In Dominion right now if someone kills you the only thing you lose is 20 seconds of downtime. No gold or exp is lost AT ALL. You can't deny your opponent exp or gold and that is where Dominion has it's downfall. Let's say I kill someone who is trying to cap my tower, I out play him and lose very little health. I now try to rush over to his tower (or capture point if you will) and start working on that but NOPE he's back up, same level as me with about the same amount of gold. You see how pointless deaths are? The thing is though if you increase the death counter based on level like SR you kill the fast paced feeling of the game.

Two things that need to be fixed in this game: Death timers need to be fixed, and some item's need to be removed. I don't mind if a better team out plays mine, I do mind when they stack PD with no AD items and still hit like a truck even when I have a good amount of armor (which this causes them to capture 3 points and turtle until the game is over).


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by StandAloneX View Post
I think it's pretty easy to under stand and I think it's fair. Whoever hold the most points the longest wins.
But thats not how Dominion is. If you hold 3+ bases for the majority of the game, that doesn't mean you will win. If should mean you win. But it doesn't. The only time you're knocking points off the enemy's nexus is when you're controlling the most points on the map. You get nothing for controlling 2 if they control 3. You should. But you don't.


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Alden Cross

Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nideak View Post
Death's should matter in Dominion. In Dominion right now if someone kills you the only thing you lose is 20 seconds of downtime. No gold or exp is lost AT ALL. You can't deny your opponent exp or gold and that is where Dominion has it's downfall. Let's say I kill someone who is trying to cap my tower, I out play him and lose very little health. I now try to rush over to his tower (or capture point if you will) and start working on that but NOPE he's back up, same level as me with about the same amount of gold. You see how pointless deaths are? The thing is though if you increase the death counter based on level like SR you kill the fast paced feeling of the game.

Two things that need to be fixed in this game: Death timers need to be fixed, and some item's need to be removed. I don't mind if a better team out plays mine, I do mind when they stack PD with no AD items and still hit like a truck even when I have a good amount of armor (which this causes them to capture 3 points and turtle until the game is over).
Someone wrote a post to compare how deaths are in SR when they are in Dominion. Long story short, just as bad. Imagine if you are the person holding 3 points defending 2. You just killed some of those people trying to cap your points. That is at best, 20 points off the Enemy Nexus, not something to take lightly.

You also seriously underestimate how fast it would take for someone to cap a point. If your team is down for 20s, you WILL lose a point. It takes less then 5 seconds if you ignore the minion waves to get from your spawn to the top of the map, from your bottom point to the other bottom point.

Low death timers is one of the reasons, I feel, that despite people complaining over Heroes like Tryn, his Ultimate, which is the only reason for his surviability, only refreshes once every 3 times he kills me :P

You think in terms of gold and exp. What you should consider is that gold and exp are NOT the ultimate benchmark of being able to win games as it is in SR. It comes down to being able to coordinate with your team better.


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karuuv View Post
Again, 100 point lead is *not* that much, that's a close game. Every capture point over the enemy team you have is 1 point HP drain a second, so 100 points is at most 100 seconds of life when the enemy team has an advantage.
I'd say about a 200 point lead is the breaking limit between "Close game" and "Somewhat Noticeable Lead"

Also: It's happened to me on both sides. I'd be amazed to find someone it DIDN'T happen to.
When I was on the losing team, it was because we were legitimately outplayed and didn't react well enough to whatever strategy they had mustered, and they DESERVED that win. It was not luck, it was darn good tactics.

When we made a comeback, it was because we found a way to outdo THEIR strategy, and THEY could not cope with our own tactics. We deserved to win in those cases, as we outplayed them.

There are also champions that simply do better later on in the game, and those that degrade quickly towards the ending. You may have had a GREAT early game team comp (Which would, incidentally, be likely to give you guys a VERY impressive KDA over your enemies) but have lackluster champions for late/end game.

Furthermore, a death in Dominion doesn't mean you're bad, or even that you made a mistake. This game mode has PLENTY of times when dying is *worth it* for reasons beyond "because I said so in chat"
If you die to interrupt a critical point capture long enough for your team to arrive and take it back so you don't lose a SINGLE Nexus health, your death was most notably worth it.
As such, it is easy to win a game while being negative. It's easy to go negative and have the best score out of either team.
I'm trying to stay open-minded about this, as I wish others would do the same. I really do get where you're coming from. Riot created Dominion to be a fight-to-the-finish, not who can win the first 5 minutes of the game. Believe me, I get it. I just don't always see the better team winning, and as someone stated above me, completely AWFUL players can be good at Dominion, for the simple fact that dying doesn't really matter. You're out for about 10-15 seconds, you're not really losing that much gold or exp, and you're up and running, just to die again. There is no feeding in Dominion, nor can anyone really take control of the game like you could in SR. Dying in SR or TT is what determines who wins, basically. Dying = lost gold, lost experience, AND increased gold/exp for the person(s) that killed you.

I'd also like to argue against your "the best strategy wins the game." I've only played maybe 7-8 matches of Dominion, but in those, I've never once seen any strategy being talked about amongst players. If you see an open base, go for it. If the enemy is on one of your bases, go for it. That's it. If they happen to die 20 times each, but are able to tag a few bases late game, and keep you with less than 2, they win.

In short, I believe people enjoy playing LoL because of one major thing:

People. Like. Killing. Other. People.

It will be a very long time before people can lose that idea, because I guess that's not what Dominion is about.


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Alden Cross

Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcup View Post
But thats not how Dominion is. If you hold 3+ bases for the majority of the game, that doesn't mean you will win. If should mean you win. But it doesn't. The only time you're knocking points off the enemy's nexus is when you're controlling the most points on the map. You get nothing for controlling 2 if they control 3. You should. But you don't.
Explain the 'should' part. Why on earth would you get something for controlling less then the majority of the points in the game? Let me rephrase. If you can hold 3 points and lead a score from 300 to 20, but cannot do so for an approximate /20/ seconds longer, then you deserve to lose.

Why should you be rewarded for being careless?


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Cross View Post
It comes down to being able to coordinate with your team better.
Am I the only one that doesn't get teams that coordinate with each other? Everyone keeps preaching the same thing "The team that coordinates better wins, not the team that has the most kills"

Sorry, I have yet to see ANYONE coming up with a plan to win, or coordinating any plans of action in any of the Dominion games I've played. The only plans I've seen are:

1) "Oh look, a neutral base, I will go cap it"

-or-

2) "Oh look, someone's capping our base, I will go defend!"


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Alden Cross

Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcup View Post
If you see an open base, go for it. If the enemy is on one of your bases, go for it. That's it. If they happen to die 20 times each, but are able to tag a few bases late game, and keep you with less than 2, they win.

In short, I believe people enjoy playing LoL because of one major thing:

People. Like. Killing. Other. People.

It will be a very long time before people can lose that idea, because I guess that's not what Dominion is about.

Let's just start again. What do you mean by 'Better team'?


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Cross View Post
Explain the 'should' part. Why on earth would you get something for controlling less then the majority of the points in the game? Let me rephrase. If you can hold 3 points and lead a score from 300 to 20, but cannot do so for an approximate /20/ seconds longer, then you deserve to lose.

Why should you be rewarded for being careless?
Why not, is the better question. Again, this is Arathi Basin 2.0. For each node you control, you take X amount of health from the enemy nexus per second. The more you control, the better, obviously. If you have a huge lead in the final minute of the 4th quarter, take a knee and run out the clock. You won, you deserve it. You don't put in 5 WR's and throw it down the middle.

On the flip side of that, how is it fair the OTHER team can be careless for 80% of the game, and still have a chance to win? It has to work both ways.


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Alden Cross

Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcup View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't get teams that coordinate with each other? Everyone keeps preaching the same thing "The team that coordinates better wins, not the team that has the most kills"

Sorry, I have yet to see ANYONE coming up with a plan to win, or coordinating any plans of action in any of the Dominion games I've played. The only plans I've seen are:

1) "Oh look, a neutral base, I will go cap it"

-or-

2) "Oh look, someone's capping our base, I will go defend!"
Let's go with your logic tree.

You are holding 3 points, opponent is holding two. You see one of your opponents capping the Windmill. You go for him. Oh wait, Your friend is coming along too because he's following Decision 2). Not just your friend, your entire team is coming up! OMG, the other two points are now undefended and have been neuted!

Sorry, but that's more or less the same as saying

1) Enemy is pushing mid/top/bottom, everyone defend there!
2) Enemy is pushing mid/top/bottom, everyone push another lane!


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Best Atheist NA

Senior Member

09-24-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Cross View Post
Let's just start again. What do you mean by 'Better team'?
Um... I know what you want me to say, so I won't go there, so I will say this. The better team would be the one that knows their champions better, and um, knows how to not die?

You *wanted* me to say the team that has the better K/D/A, right? Come on, you know people play this to kill other champions, and the team that does that usually wins.


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