ATMOGS The Go To Meta...

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Omni

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Senior Member

09-22-2011

Seems like if you're playing an AD melee champion and you need sustain but don't want to lose dps power, no problem. All the pros rush Warmogs+Atmas (Sometimes Frozen+Atmas). It turns an AD Melee champ into a champion like Ryze, where he can just build tanky and still nuke like a mage...except in this case it turns a squishy AD Melee into a tanky DPS. I'm not saying this meta is new, but it seems like its the most effective way to go...So I'm just making this post to increase awareness of it. Why spend time grinding out high AD items while risking your sustain, when you can build your sustain and recover a lot of your attack power by getting an Atmas and becoming tankier...seems simple enough and its super effective. I'm not saying that this is the way to go on Ranged AD but it's like such an easy thing to do to assure a great end game build by having these 2 items in it. If you haven't tried it, i recommend it, it's kinda broken lol.


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HunterlovesSam

Senior Member

04-06-2012

Its a very good combo but you would be around 5000hp to tie with a blood thirster at full stacks so its not as amazing as you are thinking


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axesandspears

Senior Member

04-06-2012

Actually, the other bruiser builds you can make are usually better overall. Atmog's is just simpler for a lot of players who have not learned to change their builds according to the situation.

Even on many ad ratio champions you need more than just ad for damage, otherwise your damage output is too low to be very useful in fights. The players who have problems against Atmog's builds are the players who haven't learned how to deal with bruisers or how to counterbuild in situations where their normal build doesn't work.

In particular, ad carry players have the most problems because glass cannon builds themselves are only viable due to a meta where the entire team is defending the carry, and this just doesn't happen in low elo and pubs and the ad carry players do not understand that they need anything else.....So you get this argument: Champion X killed me, he/she must be op. Most of the damage is actually coming from the carries/mages behind the bruiser, but the player assumes the bruiser killed him/her because it was the champion right on top of them.

Atmog's and Fratma's are balanced builds that aren't particularly problematic. The problem is that they are too simple and sub-optimal, so you shouldn't use them.


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Nishaven90

Senior Member

04-07-2012

If Atmogs is removed, all melee bruisers will become obsolete.


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Kagami

Senior Member

04-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishaven90 View Post
If Atmogs is removed, all melee bruisers will become obsolete.
It would effect some. but plenty or at least a handful can build and be viable as is without it.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

04-07-2012

Axes I'm going to have to disagree with you here, off solo mid (guides by you know... the top 1% are there)

http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=9356
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=8444
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=9155

All thre by big names. All three have Atma's core on the bruiser. Currently if yo want to amplify your gold atma's is one of the most efficient buys. SImple? Yes. But hardly ineffective.

I just ran the numbers trying to get it through some idiots head that the rumored atma's changed won;t be the death of atma's builds. At 3000 HP atma's is basically at 1.7x gold efficiency.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

04-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autocthon View Post
Axes I'm going to have to disagree with you here, off solo mid (guides by you know... the top 1% are there)

http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=9356
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=8444
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=9155

All thre by big names. All three have Atma's core on the bruiser. Currently if yo want to amplify your gold atma's is one of the most efficient buys. SImple? Yes. But hardly ineffective.

I just ran the numbers trying to get it through some idiots head that the rumored atma's changed won;t be the death of atma's builds. At 3000 HP atma's is basically at 1.7x gold efficiency.
Based on TheOddOne's actual match history however, he seems to be taking a very different build on Nocturne (although it looks like Impaler could still be one of the intended items to finish it), and he is no longer taking Warmog's on Lee Sin or Nocturne.

....Dyrus's last games as Olaf he built Shurelya's, Hextech Gunblade, Randuin's Omen, Maw of Mortius, Ionian Boots, and Giant's belt.......

Usually the problem with Atmog's builds is that although you have strong general defense, you lack the damage you need to really be effective in fights. You may not need that damage if your opponents spend the entire fight focusing on you instead of trying to reach and attack your carries, but if the other team doesn't focus the Atmog's champion it is quite likely that the other team will kill your squishies faster than you can catch and kill theirs and you'll be by yourself against 2 or 3 champions at the end of the fight.


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Autocthon

Senior Member

04-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
Based on TheOddOne's actual match history however, he seems to be taking a very different build on Nocturne (although it looks like Impaler could still be one of the intended items to finish it), and he is no longer taking Warmog's on Lee Sin or Nocturne.

....Dyrus's last games as Olaf he built Shurelya's, Hextech Gunblade, Randuin's Omen, Maw of Mortius, Ionian Boots, and Giant's belt.......

Usually the problem with Atmog's builds is that although you have strong general defense, you lack the damage you need to really be effective in fights. You may not need that damage if your opponents spend the entire fight focusing on you instead of trying to reach and attack your carries, but if the other team doesn't focus the Atmog's champion it is quite likely that the other team will kill your squishies faster than you can catch and kill theirs and you'll be by yourself against 2 or 3 champions at the end of the fight.
On a champ with 3k health Stma's has the same (rough) gold efficiency of a fuly stacked bloodthirster. It's worth about 1000 less effective gold but it also costs 1000 les gold.

It was never intended to have gotten so popular, it's supposed to be a cap item to a heavy defensive build. Or a defensive item in a moderately offensive build. As it stands right now it's a good buy once you have 3k HP assuming you want specifically armor/AD mix. It's got as much AD as an unstacked BT in that situation with much higher efficiency and lower cost.

I personally don't think it is/was OP. But I also think people don't give it enough credit as a later game item (where it can have as much of an impact as any more expensive item for much less cost).


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ZekThePenguin

Senior Member

04-08-2012

Okay, to assume a tanky DPS NEEDS Atmog's is silly. There are plenty of item combinations that still make for tanky build without sacrificing a lot of dmg.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

04-08-2012

Atma's and Warmog's are still both necessary items. Aside from Warmog's, the few HP items with more than 300 HP are usually quite niche in usefulness (Rylai's and Frozen Mallet, Sunfire Cape). Atma's is a necessary item because other than it, we have only Madred's Bloodrazors (and Madred's Razors, obviously) for AD/Armor itemization.


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