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Things LVL 30s should know: long post

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Mjollnir

Recruiter

06-02-2010

I think it needs a section on soloing mid. It can actually be quite the ordeal and some people find it.. stressful. That may be a little difficult because of lane matchups, but there are some other things I notice happens a lot:

1. A Katarina goes missing from mid at level six, winds up top or bottom, ultis at enemy tower w/ her teammates and both die. Proceeds to sit and destroy tower. Meanwhile in mid, Annie finally pushes minions to tower. Should she head bottom/top and save the tower from the three people at half health? Or should she sit mid? IT is a legitimate scenario and I honestly do not know the answer 90% of the time. I would go, myself, but I may or may not be able to save it and I may or may not be able to kill anyone for the trouble. The problem, in sum, is that a lot of mids do not have any clue how/when/why to leave mid.

2. Another situation I often see in mid is poor map awareness. It seems to me you can't let your mid gank a low jungling Udyr, you can't always expect someone to call for your Karthus ulti, you can't always wait for a gank to be asked for before it needing to be done (or do-able).


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Saruyan

Senior Member

06-02-2010

good things ive never considered in there, the exp denial is something that I will try more often. good post, thanks for the useful tactical info.


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Kajitii

Recruiter

06-02-2010

This is all advise that people should take to heart. Really. Though I haven't seen too many players in my solo Q days where they don't do this... but it's all still valid.

Anyways, keeping in mind I didn't read through all of the responses in this thread, here's some criticism...

Quote:
Myridus:
DO NOT ATTACK FROM THE BUSH. I see too many people do this. If you are in the bush, and attack, it reveals you, unless a skill-shot. Now you have minions and probably the enemy champion attacking you. Pot out and attack, then go back in.


Certain other skills can be used in the bush and they won't reveal you. It's up to you to find out which ones they are though, as there are exceptions to many things.

Also, "Pot out and attack?" I think you meant "pop". Sounds silly xD

Quote:
Myridus:
1. Their tank hasn’t been doing well or your DPS is fed some. Their tank dies instantly to the 5 champion focus fire. That’s fine. If that happens, you should all RUN. Everyone on your team has all their spells on cool down and the enemy team is coming to avenge their fallen brother. You’ve gotten a free kill, so no reason to chance anything. Back out and wait about 10 sec before going back in.

This will allow any healers you have to regen any damage you’ve taken and all your spells will be back up. People really need to consider a Mage’s cool downs. Anivia for example has a 12 second cool down on her main initiation spell. I know others are similar. If you go in right after you kill their tank, your Mages will most likely be useless and you’re fighting 4 enemy champions with half of your champions restricted to auto-attacks for several seconds. Chances are their initial burst will kill one of your carries. Now they are down a tank, and you are down a carry. Their tank has done their job, and one of your carries can’t do theirs because they are dead. This won’t end well.


As an Anivia player, I assume you're talking about Flash Frost.

For one thing, the CD gets slightly better the more you level it up. It caps at 9 seconds at lvl 5 (5.4s w/ 40% CDR). Yeah, I'm being nit-picky xD

The main complaint is that Flash Frost is a weaksauce initiation spell, if you can even call it that. Unless it's a mad/ignorant fool charging you, the chances of you following up properly on a landed Flash Frost are very small, due to distance and the fact that the person won't really be disabled in any meaningful way.

On the off-chance that you meant that Anivia needs Flash Frost to "initiate" her burst combo, there's better examples =/ Pantheon for example has a rather long CD on his main damage spell Heartseeker Strike.




I would like to see you write on one more universally needed aspect: Map Awareness.

It's probably my number one favorite thing when I go around doing shyt. Sometimes I get the feeling that I'm not a team player because more often than not, I have a tendency to do things by myself =/ I suppose you could call it a weakness, but the ability for a soldier to think, act, and react independently is just another way to sharpen tactical prowess. It also prevents ganks during laning phase rather easily.

For example, I was at bottom as Nidalee pushing towers, when I see that top and mid are getting pushed. That wasn't all though, I counted the number of champions present, and all 5 were there. I know I won't get ganked when I do my mad pushing spree, so I quickly did my business, checking the map every second or so. Top soon had one MIA, but I decided I would take another tower before going back, because that person is either bluepilling, or assumed to be moving to counter me. Timing senses dictated that I should gtfo after downing the next tower, since the people in mid could also easily trap me if they wanted to. (I had summoner spells geared for escaping, so I had insurance)


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Kynaeus

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Wonderful advice except EVERYONE should follow it, regardless of your summoner level; playing smarter sooner will only win you more games.


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GrnEggsNHam

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Quote:
Tekman:
please explain how to tank, when you dont have a taunt. People dont understand most tanks cant make anyone attack them. Infact, you say right above that to specifically ignore the tank.

Well for most tanks you just have to use your CC abilities to annoy the enemy team enough to where they must kill you. The other option is doing enough DPS to make them target you or pay the price of death by your meaty hands.


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Myridus

Senior Member

06-02-2010

Updated with more sections:

Pushing a Lane
Wards
Elixers

To those of you who say this is in the wrong thread, I believe that it is not. If you read the opening paragraphs in my post then you'd know that most lvl 30s DO NOT know these things. In a perfect world where all people got better over time then this would be a newbie guide. However since too many high level players with 200+ wins make these mistakes, I feel it is necessary to post this as something everyone should read.


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nguyenmb

Member

06-02-2010

Thanks For the guide and tips.

As a player who recently hit lvl 30, I would like to post my point of view on why some of these things aren't learned - especially the concepts specified in your last hitting and laning phase.

Most of those concepts don't normally feel naturally and aren't intuitive. I don't come from a Dota background. Only after reading the forums and getting told by my friends have I learned that you only get gold from last hitting a mob. This is not something that comes naturally, so I find it hard to expect players to actually learn this skill. There isn't a stat that says how many minions you've damaged but didn't earn the gold (there is a mob kill stat, but a natural assumption a player might make would be that he got a low mob count because his hero doesn't have good enough AoE - me myself have done that, i never concluded it was because i was badly skilled at last hitting mobs)

Also, the act of last hitting a mob to me doesn't feel fun. It's tedious. Which is probably the main reason i myself haven't really learned how to do it. I can easily see why many other people choose to not focus on this concept as well.

In regards to lane positioning, I feel it's natural for one to try to assault and push. Just seeing your opponents trapped in their tower feels rewarding. While it may not be an indication of skill, it at least feels like it, which is probably another reason why people do it. Because it feels good.


I also feel the game is also very forgiving to early game failure. There's many matches where I've constantly lost the laning battles, but constantly won 5v5 battles, and vice versa, did really well early game, but couldn't win the 5v5. While a strong early game usually leads to a stronger late game, I personally never learned any of these early game tricks because if i did badly, I always knew i could still win the late game if my team coordinated well in the group battles.

I appreciate the guide and tips and tricks. I am somewhat against the notion that everything in the guide is 'elementary' enough for every player to naturally pickup even with hundreds of hours of gameplay.


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Yatteri

Recruiter

06-02-2010

Oh, if only 50% of my team mates in solo queue knew about this...

Example of me in a lane today:

Don't auto attack.

Dude, don't auto attack.
...
Please stop.
...
You're pushing the lane into the tower and we're 2v1. If you stop auto attacking we can force him to move out and we can kill or deny him.
...
*ally continues to auto attack everything*

Yeah, or blatantly ignore me, that works too.
----

ugh..


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DinoFuzz

Member

06-02-2010

Quote:
Miles Long:
So basically...

Lane like a passive ******bag and be sure to selfishly steal every creep kill for yourself with no regard to your partner. I love how the stupid denier strategy still found its way into LoL despite there being no denying.

Abuse the broken brush mechanic in lieu of having any true laning and/or ganking skill.

Don't push lanes in a game where the primary objective is to destroy the opposing team's base.

Boy you know, your post neatly summed up how painfully one dimensional LoL is with its complete disregard to laning and overemphasis on ganking. Basically, almost every way I don't play this game and never plan to is on your so-called brilliant list of "Do this and always win."

More than anything, your post has reminded me how much I hate how shallow this game is at heart. Every game devolves into the same stupid **** and in the end, the only thing that matters is which team blindly counter-picks better. And which team can hump the brush more effectively too, of course.

Your post should have ended at "you can never quite predict how a lane will go because of character match ups" because in light of that, anything you say thereafter is simply supposition, despite trying to hypocritically state "but there are some things that remain true at all times."

There are too many variables in play to realistically assume that anything could possibly be absolute. I'm afraid that makes your post nothing more than subjective drivel that should not be taken as fact.

Thank you for reminding me why I hate LoL, although I'm sure my next game will do that job just as well.


So why did you take the time to post this if you hate LOL so much??


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Arkrothe

Senior Member

06-02-2010

bump