Best Talon build I've been able to come up with.

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CTHDRL

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Keep in mind this is pretty general. I change according to necessity. 3+ huge AP nukers for example I will obviously opt for bonus MR. etc Use your brain as always.

Edit; And no I don't think Doran's Blade is that great on Talon. If you're getting dominated you can stack two of them for some early-mid game survivability but over all if you're playing properly and you're not 3V5 you should be OK. Besides Doran's gives you 100HP. An HP Pot is 200 HP. 3 HP pots = 600 effective HP. And as Talon it allows you to farm relatively safely until you can farm up a Philo stone. + boots helps you dodge enemy harass easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLPYHD View Post
I start boots+3HP

Then I go Philo for one main important reason, so that if I am getting harassed out of the lane, or if I need to gank I do not lose out so bad on farm. Which IMO is so ****ing important to Talon.

Then I get Avarice for the same reason.

Brutalizer. (I normally wait until after Trinity to finish Ghostblade)
Phage
CDR boots
TF
Defensive item or BF sword.

My final build that I've gotten twice is..

Ghostblade
CDR bots
Trinity
BT
BT
Gunblade

Basically unkillable unless focused, which for one, is very hard to do since Talon is an assassin and you should be playing him likewise. And for two, you still have 4 teammates that all still need to go down. So even if you do get focused, with Gunblade + 2 BT it'll take more effort than normal and it isn't necessarily a losing scenario since it takes at least an exhaust or ignite + two or more hard CC's and probably someone's Ult.

Not a terrible trade-off at 60 minutes into the game where every ability use counts.

Edit; Ends up being ~430 AD. Q heals ~1/3 of your HP every 3 seconds. W heals a varying amount depending on what you hit. Ulting and running through creeps + enemies is basically full HP. Gunblade active synergizes with passive + adds that extra burst. Ghostblade is obviously ballin'. Etc.

I skill

WEWQWR R>W>Q>E

Runes, standard "tanky DPS". IMO these are 100% necessary for early game.
Arpen Reds+Quints
Armor Yellows
MR Blues

Masteries I go 15/0/15
Improved exhaust, crit, CDR, Arpen, 1 into minion damage and AD. And then 1 into respawn timer, regen, exp, greed, jungle buffs, 1 into meditation, 2 into MS and then flash.


Random things you should know.

Periodically buy wards and if you need them more HP pots. I on average would guess that I buy about 7HPpots and 4 wards before 20 minutes.

You are an AD Caster. Think AD version of Akali (just not as good :S). Eventually your autoattacks become significant and yes tehy DO matter at all points in the game. But for 90% of your games that end in under 35 minutes the very large majority of your damage will come from your abilities. This is why building Tanky, or atmogs or whatever you people are trying to build on him is not at all optimal or even good. That doesn't mean it can't work. Just that it isn't from a logical, mechanical, mathematical or technical perspective making the best of what Talon has.

Anything you do will break your ultimate stealth. Flash, or Ghostblade active for example. Obviously a bug that will get patched soon.

E doesn't have damage upfront. But DO NOT underestimate that extra %15(at level 5) you get from attacking the silenced champion. You do not get this from any other CC, including other silences. Only your E procs this.

As was mentioned in the spotlight Q resets your autoattack. This means as you hit a unit you press Q ASAP and you automatically attack again. Regardless of your attackspeed there will be no pause. This is critical for maximum DPS/burst and farming.

Basic combo for ganking someone is. Q to activate your next autoattack. E to silence and get that bonus damage from your on-hit Q. Immediately W. Hesitate to see if they flash. Follow them with Ult, get in front of them exhaust + finish them off with another Q and then W again if they're still alive.
Q-E-W-R-Q-W-E

Surprise gank method. Get just barely out of their sight range. Most people do not immediately react to your blades appearing when they initially fan out from your ult. Activate Q and ult ASAP, run up behind them. Attack(Q should still be active) and then W. Depending on where you are you can wait for them to flash and follow with E, or immediately E to keep them from flashing over a wall. Either way you use E next. Follow up with summoner spells, Q's and W's.

Q-R-W-E-Q-W


Do not Rambo into teamfights. You're not Jarvan. Wait to clutch Silence someone with E, where you can position yourself to mass slow the enemy team and get some nice damage with W. Focus whoever you want to focus with Q and try to position yourself to hit as many people with both parts of your ultimate, and even use it to escape if you have to. You would be surprised how long people run around waiting for you to appear from stealth wanting to kill you, while ignoring your teammates who are killing them.

You are not a pubstomp Solo Queue carry. Talon has terrible base damage and similar scaling to Garen. Who is notorious for being a useless pile of **** end-game. However due to your kit you are capable of bursting down single targets end-game, very much unlike Garen. Partially thanks to not having to build tanky. Also unlike Garen; while his base damage basically makes him one of the best early game champions there ever was, yours is terrible. Really, really terrible. So FARM. Always FARM. And then FARM some more. Because you need items. And you need them quickly.

Don't be afraid to ult, it's got a stupidly low CD. With my build it gets down to like 27 seconds if I remember correctly.



And finally. Yes Gunblade. Those of you who are newer players know Shaco to be a terrible awful champion. Shaco used to be able to abuse Auras which along with Starks, GA and Aegis made him nigh unkillable and allowed him to snowball without scrutiny thanks to massive amounts of lifesteal. Talon cannot abuse Auras but Talon can abuse the fact that you can pretty much heal up within seconds just from Q + W. And your ult CAN actually get you to full HP in a single use from being almost dead. Yes the AP from TF and Gunblade are wasted. But it's a small price to pay in my opinion.


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bob000

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Why trinity over another bf item?


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CTHDRL

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob000 View Post
Why trinity over another bf item?
More HP, Mana, MS, AS, Crit and a good chance for a free slow.

Oh and the hefty proc you get that goes fantastic with your Q.

And it builds from Phage, which makes your early-mid game phenomenally more manageable.


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Ryuuzuka

Member

08-31-2011

Why bother getting Tri-Force? You should turn Phage into Frozen Mallet, Tons of HP and a constant slow for your Passive. My build that i find extremely useful so far is.
Berserker Boots, Avarice Blade for the GP/5 (turns into Ghostblade), Phage. Then depending on game I either get a Bf sword or finish Frozen Mallet. Final gear.
1. Boots
2. Frozen Mallet
3. Ghostblade
4. BT
5. Defensive depending on their comp.
6.either IE or and Armor pen item.


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Koudez

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossjr View Post
Why bother getting Tri-Force? You should turn Phage into Frozen Mallet, Tons of HP and a constant slow for your Passive. My build that i find extremely useful so far is.
Berserker Boots, Avarice Blade for the GP/5 (turns into Ghostblade), Phage. Then depending on game I either get a Bf sword or finish Frozen Mallet. Final gear.
1. Boots
2. Frozen Mallet
3. Ghostblade
4. BT
5. Defensive depending on their comp.
6.either IE or and Armor pen item.

I wouldn't get Frozen Mallet over Tri-Force.
People get Mallet for the slow for ur passive, getting such an expensive item for the slow is completely ridiculous considering only an extra 10% on ur AUTOATTACKS, and since ur an assasin/ AD caster u shouldn't be autoattacking alot.

Meanwhile tri-force not only gives u a chance to slow ( which is a very minor component of getting the item) is that it gives u amazing proc that will drastically increase the damage of your Cutthroat + Diplomacy combo, and i since Noxian Diplomacy CAN crit has a chance to further increase the damage ( mind you i would advise getting IE aswell)


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CTHDRL

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koudez View Post
I wouldn't get Frozen Mallet over Tri-Force.
People get Mallet for the slow for ur passive, getting such an expensive item for the slow is completely ridiculous considering only an extra 10% on ur AUTOATTACKS, and since ur an assasin/ AD caster u shouldn't be autoattacking alot.

Meanwhile tri-force not only gives u a chance to slow ( which is a very minor component of getting the item) is that it gives u amazing proc that will drastically increase the damage of your Cutthroat + Diplomacy combo, and i since Noxian Diplomacy CAN crit has a chance to further increase the damage ( mind you i would advise getting IE aswell)
I am 99% sure that Q is basically a Trinity Force proc that affects your target with Bleed.

You crit as normal and you get the normal proc from Q the same as you would when you don't crit.

ITT; It's still just your autoattack critting and the Q, like Trinity proc, is calculated afterwards.


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CTHDRL

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossjr View Post
Why bother getting Tri-Force? You should turn Phage into Frozen Mallet, Tons of HP and a constant slow for your Passive. My build that i find extremely useful so far is.
Berserker Boots, Avarice Blade for the GP/5 (turns into Ghostblade), Phage. Then depending on game I either get a Bf sword or finish Frozen Mallet. Final gear.
1. Boots
2. Frozen Mallet
3. Ghostblade
4. BT
5. Defensive depending on their comp.
6.either IE or and Armor pen item.
Sometimes I do get FM. But that's only, ONLY when I need to be tanky.

FM is WAY too expensive. Especially as a first item. The constant slow is not a selling point. I'm playing Talon, therefore I get red buff by default after level 6. So I have a constant slow at all times anyways. And Trinity gives you a decent amount of HP, along with a bunch of other amazing stats that makes it actually worth it's huge price. Very much unlike Frozen Mallet.


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Boomstick II

Senior Member

08-31-2011

Just a tip for your "combos"...

Personally, I prefer to E - AA - W - Q - R then do whatever. If you do it like this, then you get a 15% dmg amp on your auto attack and rake, then when you immediately hit Q (you could Q after another auto attack if you'd like, but it makes it slower) you have both the 15% dmg amp and the 10% dmg amp from your passive. Then, obviously, you use R (and hopefully it was fast enough to factor in the 15% dmg amp again) and do whatever you see fit next. Either chase or run pretty much.

Technically, the highest burst you'll probably get is E - AA - W - AA - Q - R, but that's hard to do fast enough to keep that 15% dmg up for your ultimate. That's why I leave out the 2nd auto attack. After your ult, it would probably be best to do AA - Q right away if your Q is off cool down. You should try to abuse the auto attack reset with your Q to maximize your burst.

In order to help get the above combo done fast enough, I usually activate ghostblade BEFORE I go in to burst someone down. With that extra attack speed, it should be possible to get off the whole combo in time for you to ult while the 15% dmg amp is up.


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Rawrful

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Senior Member

08-31-2011

Anyone who ever suggests a Frozen Mallet is terrible and you need to ignore them.

Anywhos, I've found that getting the early Bloodthirsters (Or at least the BF swords for them) is more important than the Ghostblade. Brutalizer is a good item, but you really need as high a bonus AD as possible to make your burst higher. If you try to play him as a standard melee DPS you die way too easy. Stacking AD early, then moving into a Phage-Trinity is really the way to go. His skills do amazing damage if you stack AD and his q resets his auto attack timer so you really don't need attack speed.

Essentially, I like to go Bloodthirster-Bloothirster-Phage-Brutalizer-Trinity-Banshees-Finish Ghostblade if the game goes that long. Gunblade is a waste, with two Bloodthirsters he has no trouble healing.

Your combo is pretty simple. Jump to the enemy, AA, Q (Happens essentually instantly), ult, step behind them, Rake (Triggers second proc of ult), AA, Q. Gets you 4 auto attacks and every ability hitting in about 3 seconds. Instagibs anyone who isn't very tank, and it is hard to target you during it because the stealth breaks auto attacks and because it opens with a long range dash.


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xUnknownNinjax

Junior Member

08-31-2011

just quick question ? what kind of rune are u guy use when play Talon ?


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