Twisted Fate: Why Attack Speed Stacking Is Bad and What Is Better

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Remiko Elliot

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Senior Member

05-20-2010

Original link can be found here :http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/gu...20Is%20Better.

Why Straight Attack Speed Build Sucks and why you should STFU and listen to me when I tell you that your build sucks.

Don't take the above comment too seriously. >_<
Hi, and welcome to my guide.
My name is Voistriser(Rezellmine) and I take video games very seriously.
Back when I used to play World of Warcraft, I was a semi-elitist jerk raider who would go at any means to squeeze out one extra point of damage in raids. Being a competitive raider, this was required of me and I did it well.
Now, similarly, I take League of Legends very seriously and I figured that dps in LoL was very similar to dps in WoW. Both follow similar systems and work mostly the same.

Now, the reason I am writing this guide is that I have been getting very frustrated at a lot of Twisted Fate players in the League of Legends community.
The general trend of Twisted Fate players look at his ability Stacked Deck and immediately assume that the entire champion has to be built around it.
In many cases with other champions (ie: Tryndamere, Shaco, Gangplank, Ashe, Jax, Pantheon), it is often correct to build the champion around a mechanic or ability.
I do not blame people for assuming this, but for Twisted Fate, this is incorrect and I am here to prove why that is to those who are too stubborn to take suggestions.

The big Problem is that stacking Attack Speed only backs up your Stacked Deck damage.
But to be a truly effective damage dealer, you need a mix of Attack Damage and Attack Speed to make it worthwhile.

I'm tired of listening to "I have 400 games as Twisted Fate and you have 80, stop telling me how to play my character"
Sure, I have less experience playing as him than you, but I cared enough to do some math. It's up to you if you want to follow my guide or not.

==================================================
Preliminary Notes
==================================================

I decided to create a dps spread sheet in order to calculate how much damage Twisted Fate can pull out with each build over a 5 second timeframe.

The reason this experiment is in a 5 second timeframe is that in any game 5 seconds is probably the longest duration you will be able to sit there and attack someone repeatedly without being interrupted.

The damage calculation include: Damage, Attack Speed, Stacked Deck Damage, Critical Chance, Critical Damage, and Malady Damage.

On the other hand, these calculations assume many things. These include:
0 Magic Resistance and 0 Armor (If Armor is factored in, Brutalizer/Last Whisper would do more damage than in this spreadsheet and Malady would do less)
Offensive Masteries including Lethality, Alacrity, Brute Force, Sunder, and Deadliness.
Absolutely no runes.
That you are uninterrupted during the damage dealt.
Wild cards is not factored in because it is a terrible ability now.

All stats are taken from in-game and not fabricated with math or Leaguecraft's Champion builder. For some reasons Leaguecraft's calculator is not correct for TF.

Also note: For some reason, Leaguecraft does not like apostrophes because whenever I update, every apostrophes turn into random characters. So I will just fix this by removing all of them.

This is the spreadsheet that I made. Note that this does not take into account Armor/MR yet. It is still very rough. I will factor these in as soon as I learn how.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...6RE1hTHc&hl=en

Due to the fact that TF had an undeserved 15% nerf in his attack speed and 30 damage nerf to his PaC. I deemed TF no longer usable for competitive play over the myriad of other ranged dps champions available.
However, since the most recent patch with Season 1, TF's PaC can no longer be dodged.
All in all, this buff is definitely worth the 15% attack speed nerf and he is again very viable.

To negate the effects of the AS nerf, I've been buying a dagger to make up for the losses but I haven't been building it into anything. Even then, whatever you do. DO NOT build the dagger into Berserker's Greaves. Ever.
==================================================
Glossary
==================================================

TF = Twisted Fate
SD = Stacked Deck
PaC = Pick a Card
SotD = Sword of the Divine

==================================================
Your First Blue Pill
==================================================

Alright, let's start with the item you are going to get on your first Blue Pill.
Your first Blue Pill should be around level 6 when you get your destiny.
At level 6, your goals should be to Recall back, get your first item, and destiny in for a gank.

This means that we assume:
Stacked Deck is ready to blow on the first hit. This is because you can choose when to Destiny somewhere and gank someone. This means that you can work up your Stacked Deck before you jump in to maximize your ganking chances.
You are level 6 and your stats reflect this.
Stacked deck is at level 3 which means that it deals 150 damage every fourth attack and adds 18% attack speed.
Damage is calculated over a duration of 5 seconds. Any more than that is unrealistic.

==================================================
Your First Blue Pill Item Choices
==================================================

Recurve Bow
Cost: 1050
Damage: 66
Attack Speed: 1.152
Critical Chance: 7%

5.76 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 380.16
Additional Critical Damage: 29.27
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 769.43
Damage per Gold: 0.7328

Pickaxe
Cost: 975
Damage: 91
Attack Speed: 0.892
Critical Chance: 7%

4.46 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 405.86
Additional Critical Damage: 31.25
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 617.11
Damage per Gold: 0.8175

Double Long Sword
Cost: 830
Damage: 86
Attack Speed: 0.892
Critical Chance: 7%

4.46 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 383.56
Additional Critical Damage: 29.53
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 773.09
Damage per Gold: 0.9314

Double Dagger
Cost: 840
Damage: 66
Attack Speed: 1.087

5.435 Attacks
2 SD Procs
Auto-attack Damage: 358.71
Additional Critical Damage: 27.62
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 746.33
Damage per Gold: 0.8885

Dagger + Long Sword
Cost: 835
Damage: 76
Attack Speed: 0.990
Critical Chance: 7%

4.95 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 376.2
Additional Critical Damage: 28.97
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 765.17
Damager per Gold: 0.9164

Dagger + Boots
Cost: 770
Damage: 66
Attack Speed: 0.990
Critical Chance: 7%

4.95 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 326.7
Additional Critical Damage: 25.16
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 711.86
Damage per Gold: 0.9245

Long Sword + Boots
Cost: 765
Damage: 76
Attack Speed: .892
Critical Chance: 7%

4.46 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 338.96
Additional Critical Damage: 26.10
Stacked Deck Damage: 360

Total Damage: 725.06
Damage per Gold: 1.0185

==================================================
First Blue Pill Item Summary
==================================================

As you can see from the calculations, the Long Sword/Dagger + Boots combination has a very high damage per gold ratio and it makes chasing whoever you are ganking much easier because of the movement speed.
However, unlike the Recurve Bow and the Pickaxe, it does not have the raw damage dealing potential. There is a difference of 70-100 damage. So let's put the Long Sword + Boots combination aside for buying boots is a separate case. Whether you want the boots or not is your choice to make depending on the situation.
However, if you decide to go the Boots path, I suggest taking the Long Sword because it builds into more worthwhile items later on, namely Last Whisper/Brutalizer.

Also, do not be fooled by the cost-effectiveness of Daggers. They might seem like a great early game boost, but they build into less useful items during mid-game.

Pickaxe is simply not a very cost-efficient choice unless you build it into an Infinity Edge(Shown later)

The choice between the Recurve Bow and the Double Long Sword is a little bit of a tougher decision. Both provide great damage boosts early game for a very good cost and would help you get that level 6 gank going.
Double Longsword shows that it is the most cost-efficient item that you can purchase.
However, in my opinion, getting the Recurve Bow for your first big item is better because the damage boost from Stacked Deck procs are very huge early game. Landing two Stacked Deck procs in one gank will probably ensure you a kill.
The Recurve Bow also conveniently builds into Last Whisper. Which I will show is the best choice for an attack speed item.
Either build is completely viable. They do very similar damage for the price and both build into very important items.

However, the damage from Stacked Deck will become less and less significant as you level. This is why it is not a very smart idea to build your items entirely around Stacked Deck. It drops off way too much late game.
This brings us to the next section of my guide; mid-late game.

==================================================
Mid-Late Game Items
==================================================

Here, I have listed most of the possible builds you can choose from mid-late game.
They are organized by cost, lowest being the first and highest being the last.

These dps numbers assume different things than the BP Item list.
These include:
Stacked Deck counter starts at 0. The reason is that it's not always reliable to have Stacked Deck ready to blow during team fights because you will most likely be harassing your enemies whenever possible.
Stacked Deck is now assumed to be at level 5, adding 30% attack speed and 210 damage on the fourth hit.
It is assumed that your level is 18, and your stats reflect this.
The damage is calculated over 5 seconds. Any more than that is unrealistic.
Target still has 0 Armor and 0 Magic Resistance for the sake of ease in calculating.
If every champion starts with 30 MR/Armor, and gets defensive boots, Brutalizer/Last whisper become more effective and cost efficient and malady becomes less useful and cost efficient.
It is also assumed that the player buys either Ninja Tabi or Mercury Treads because Berzerker's Greaves are useless unless you are VERY low Elo.

==================================================
Mid-Late Game Item Builds
==================================================

SotD + Pickaxe
Cost: 3145
Damage: 132
Attack Speed: 1.563
Critical Chance: 13%
100 damage every fourth hit

7.815 Attacks
1 SD Procs
Auto-attack Damage: 1031.58
Additional Critical Damage: 147.52
Stacked Deck Damage: 210
SotD Damage: 100

Total Damage: 1489.10
Damage per Gold: 0.4734

Last Whisper + Brutalizer
Cost: 3302
Damage: 153
Attack Speed: 1.465%
Critical Chance: 13%

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1120.72
Additional Critical Damage: 160.26
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 1490.89
Damage per Gold: 0.4515

Last Whisper+ Malady
Cost: 3840
Damage: 127
Attack Speed: 1.790
Critical Chance: 13%

8.95 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1136.65
Additional Critical Damage: 162.54
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
Malady Damage: 165

Total Damage: 1884.19
Damage per Gold: 0.4906

SotD + BF Sword
Cost: 4020
Damage: 158
Attack Speed: 1.563
Critical Chance: 13%
100 damage every fourth hit

7.815 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1234.77
Additional Critical Damage: 176.57
Stacked Deck Damage: 210
SotD Damage: 100

Total Damage: 1721.34
Damage per Gold: 0.4281

Infinity Edge
Cost 4080
Damage: 190
Attack Speed: 1.204
Critical Chance: 33%
Critical damage 250% instead of 200%

6.02 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1143.8
Additional Critical Damage: 603.93
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 1957.73
Damage per Gold: 0.4798

SotD + Last Whisper
Cost: 4135
Damage: 127
Attack Speed: 1.823
Critical Chance: 13%
100 damage every fourth hit

9.115 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1157.605
Additional Critical Damage: 165.54
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
SotD Damage: 200

Total Damage: 1943.143
Damage per Gold: 0.4699

Last Whisper + Brutalizer + Pickaxe
Cost: 4277
Damage: 178
Attack Speed: 1.465
Critical Chance: 13%

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1303.85
Additional Critical Damage: 186.45
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 1700.3
Damage per Gold: 0.3975

Last Whisper + Youmuus Ghostblade
Cost: 4652
Damage: 158
Attack Speed: 1.465/1.790
Critical Chance: 28%

No Activation

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 1157.35
Additional Critical Damage: 356.46
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 1532.85
Damage per Gold: 0.3295

Activated

8.95 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1414.10
Additional Critical Damage: 435.54
Stacked Deck Damage: 420

Total Damage: 2036.16
Damage per Gold: 0.4377

SotD + Youmus Ghostblade
Cost: 4857
Damage: 137
Attack Speed: 1.563/1.888
Critical Chance: 28%
100 damage every fourth hit

No Activation

7.815 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1070.65
Additional Critical Damage: 329.76
Stacked Deck Damage: 210
SotD Damage: 100

Total Damage: 1710.42
Damage per Gold: 0.3522

Activation

9.44 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1293.28
Additional Critical Damage: 398.33
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
SotD Damage: 200

Total Damage 2311.61
Damage per Gold: 0.4759

Last Whisper+ Brutalizer + BF sword
Cost: 5122
Damage: 203
Attack Speed: 1.465
Critical Chance: 13%

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1486.97
Additional Critical Damage: 212.63
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 1909.6
Damage per Gold: 0.3728

SotD + Brutalizer + Last Whisper
Cost: 5472
Damage: 152
Attack Speed: 1.823
Critical Chance: 13%
100 damage every fourth hit

9.115 Attacks
2 SD Procs
Auto-attack Damage: 1385.48
Additional Critical Damage: 198.12
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
SotD Damage: 200

Total Damage: 2203.6
Damage per Gold: 0.4445

Last Whisper + Malady+ SotD
Cost: 6025 gold
Damage: 128
Attack Speed: 2.148
Critical chance: 13%
100 damage every fourth hit

10.74 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 1374.72
Additional Critical Damage: 196.58
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
Malady Damage: 225
SotD Damage : 200

Total Damage: 2416.3
Damage per Gold: 0.4010

Last Whisper + Brutalizer + BF sword + Pickaxe
Cost: 6127
Damage: 228
Attack Speed: 1.465
Critical Chance: 13%

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1670.10
Additional Critical Damage: 238.82
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 2118.92
Damage per Gold: 0.3458

SotD + Youmus Ghostblade + Last Whisper
Cost: 6822
Damage: 157
Attack Speed: 1.823/2.148
Critical Chance: 28%
100 damage every fourth hit

No Activation

9.115 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1431.05
Additional Critical Damage: 440.76
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
SotD Damage: 200

Total Damage: 2491.82
Damage per Gold: 0.3653

Activation

10.74 Attacks
2 SD proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1686.18
Additional Critical Damage: 519.34
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
SotD Damage: 200

Total Damage: 2825.52
Damage per Gold: 0.4142

Last Whisper + Brutalizer + Infinity Edge
Cost: 7382
Damage: 237
Attack Speed: 1.465
Critical Chance: 33%
Critical damage 250% instead of 200%

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 1736.03
Additional Critical Damage: 916.62
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 2862.65
Damage per Gold: 0.3878

Last Whisper + Malady + Infinity Edge
Cost: 7935
Damage: 211
Attack Speed: 1.790
Critical Chance: 33%
Critical damage 250% instead of 200%

8.95 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 1888.45
Additional Critical Damage: 997.10
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
Malady Damage: 165

Total Damage: 3470.55
Damage per Gold: 0.4374

SotD + Last Whisper + Infinity Edge
Cost: 8215
Damage: 211
Attack Speed: 1.823
Critical Chance: 33%
Critical Damage 250% instead of 200%
100 damage every fourth hit

9.115 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto-attack Damage: 1923.27
Additional Critical Damage: 1015.48
Stacked Deck Damage: 420
SotD Damage: 200

Total Damage: 3558.75
Damage per Gold: 0.4332

Last Whisper + Youmuus Ghostblade + Infinity Edge
Cost: 8717
Damage: 242
Attack speed: 1.465/1.790
Critical Chance: 48%
Critical damage 250% instead of 200%

No activation

7.325 Attacks
1 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 1772.65
Additional Critical Damage: 1361.39
Stacked Deck Damage: 210

Total Damage: 3344.04
Damage per Gold: 0.3836

Activation

8.95 Attacks
2 SD Proc
Auto attack damage: 2165.9
Additional Critical Damage: 1663.41
Stacked Deck Damage: 420

Total Damage: 4249.31
Damage per Gold: 0.4875

==================================================
Mid-Late Game Build Summary
==================================================

Surprisingly enough, the cost of the build always is directly proportional to damage done. We do not have any build that does more damage than another for a cheaper price.
Therefore, we can not eliminate any of these choices.

I have decided to use Malady as part of my example because despite all the naysaying about the item, it seems to be the absolute most popular pick for TF players.
Assuming that the target has 0 Armor/MR, it may seem that any build that includes a malady does more damage than any of the other builds.
However, Malady only seems to stronger than all the other builds only because this is a dps simulation, not a real fight.
If you have a Malady and a Last Whiper, you will have 1.790 attack speed.
This allows you to attack 8.95 times in 5 seconds.
Now give this a little thought: How often have you ever been able to attack someone 9 times in a row?
The reality is that it usually never happens.
Damage dealing in League of Legends is more like damage dealing in PvP in WoW than Raid dps.
You will not always have the liberty to stand there like a mounted machine gun and shoot away; there will always be obstacles. This is why the burstier damage provided by Attack Damage is more useful.
TF will never be able to use Malady to its fullest potential unlike Twitch who can apply Malady stacks in an AoE with his ultimate.
The 15% life steal that comes along with it is also not cost-effective for dps.
Lifesteal is never going to save your life in a team fight unless you stack multiple, farmed Blood Thirsters. You might as well get a Phage for extra health.

With Last Whisper, the effectiveness of the item will increase as your opponents get more armor. This makes the item scale better as the game progresses while Malady's damage gets reduces as the game progresses. Therefore, Last Whisper is a solid choice for an attack speed item.

Brutalizer is also shown to be a very good pick for an early game item.
It is very cheap, while also being very cost-effective.
The cooldown reduction will allow you to spam PaC more often and also reduce the cooldown for your ultimate.
The armor penetration will also be very useful against tanks.
Most importantly, Brutalizer builds into Youmuus Ghostblade which is another very great item.

Youmuus Ghostblade increase your attack speed by 40% for 4 seconds. This is just as much as a Malady. And quite frankly, 4 seconds is all you are ever going to need while dealing damage in a team fight.
As you can see, Youmu's Ghostblade doesn't seem very cost-efficient. But it synergizes so well with the other items that you have that it is well worth the cost.
It also improves your Critical Hit Chance which synergizes very well with the additional Critical Damage from Infinity Edge.
The movement speed is just a tiny bonus in addition to all of this.

The deal with Pickaxe and BF Sword is that individually, they are terrible at being cost-efficient.
However, when you build them into an Infinity Edge, you get a huge boost that makes up for the price.
Whereas the usefulness of SotD and Malady are reduced as the game progresses due to MR and Armor.

In my opinion, any character that deals physical damage should get an Infinity Edge or any of its BF Sword-Built counterparts.
Since Bloodthirster requires a lot of farming to be effective, it's not a very good pick for TF. And with Ghostblade, Last Whisper, and Sunder, Black Cleaver is overkill.
Infinity Edge synergizes very well with your Lethality, Deadliness and also your Ghostblade.
It provides a very significant damage boost and it should always be built as a TF.

As you can see, the Last Whisper + Youmuus Ghostblade + Infinity Edge build only costs 782 more gold than the Last Whisper + Malady + Infinity Edge build but results in the difference of 943.76 damage over 5 seconds.

Another note that I will make is that Critical Damage, Malady Damage, and Stacked Deck Damage do NOT have any effect on towers.
Being TF, Back dooring towers should be one of your duties. This is another reason why banking on attack speed and not investing in attack damage is not very good.

I have been suggested to calculate the damage increase given by SotD. So after a few calculations, these are the results:
SotD + Pickaxe seems to be the best early-mid game combination with a damage that is higher than the second best choice Last Whisper + Brutalizer, and also being cheaper. This is of course assuming that he target has 0 Armor and Magic Resistance. Throughout the game, SotD proves to be a very solid pick to replace either Youmus Ghostblade or Last Whisper if the target has very low armor or has a high dodge percentage.
However, late-game, as Stacked Deck and SotD damage become more and more insignificant as your Attack Damage and Critical Chance increase, SotD loses its spot as the best item and is topped by Youmus Ghostblade by 655 damage.

I would safely assume that both SotD + Last Whisper + Infinity Edge and Last Whisper + Youmus Ghostblade + Infinity Edge combinations are very viable depending on the game length.

Also, I have been told that some Attack Speed builds include a Madred's Bloodrazor to benefit from the Attack Speed. However, I believe that Bloodrazor is a very situational item, especially for TF.
The cost-effectiveness of Bloodrazor can greatly vary depending on how many high HP targets there are and if the armor is going to be worth its cost.
In addition to that, TF does not benefit at all from Madred's Razors which Bloodrazors builds from. TF is not a jungler, nor does he have any problems killing creeps. It's simply not worth it unless you are up against some serious high HP targets.

If you think it's necessary, it is also fine to build a Phage/Frozen Mallet somewhere along the line if you think you need more survivability and the slow. These items were not included in the dps calculations because they are not dps items.

The bottom line is that Last Whisper + Youmuus Ghostblade + Infinity Edge is the best build for a TF.
Also, as shown in the Last Whisper + Malady + SotD build, having three attack speed items is just not worth the price.

==================================================
Conclusion
==================================================

So there you have it guys. The moral of the day is to not fall into the temptation of stacking attack speed items on Twisted Fate. I know a lot of you want to, but do not do it.
Attack Damage with a pinch of attack speed is the way to go.
May luck smile on you all.

==================================================
Update Notes
==================================================
May 20: Stacked Deck Damage is now properly floored for more accurate results. Thank you NoirReverie.
May 20: Added SotD builds and edited summary to reflect on this.
May 20: Uploaded to League of Legends Forums. Added Dagger damage.
May 20: Uploaded Guide, updated many times to fix errors.


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Bitterz

Senior Member

05-20-2010

omfg thank you for posting this. I've gotten so sick of all the pure attack speed TFs running around and making a mockery of the champ.

I agree with this post 100%.

edit: From a post I made a couple days ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitterz View Post
Gah, all these TF's running around with pure attack speed are doing it wrong. Listen. Between Stacked Deck, Last Whisper, and MAYBE, if you choose to go that route, Berserker Greaves, you don't need to stack any more attack speed. Get some damage! The difference between 1.7 attack speed and 2.5 is much, much less significant than the difference between critting for 300-400 and 700-800.

Build TF like a melee carry:
1. Greaves (unless you're not down with AS shoes)
2. Last Whisper (armor pen is king for physical dps)
3. Bloodthirster OR Infinity Edge. I prefer BT

Sword of the Divine is an awesome, SITUATIONAL item. You get it for the active 6 seconds of dodge immunity.

Let's look at it like this:

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Last Whisper: 20 extra damage (not counting Armor Pen!) EVERY attack.

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Bloodthirster: 60-100 extra damage (not counting life steal!) EVERY attack

Sword of the Divine: 100 extra damage every 4th attack. Infinity Edge: 80 extra damage (not counting extra crit damage!) EVERY attack

I promise. Try it. You will not be disappointed.


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Remiko Elliot

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Senior Member

05-20-2010

You're welcome, I will keep updating this guide to fix errors and add new things.
I am currently working on improving the First Blue Pill Section because I forgot to include Double Daggers, Double Long Swords, and Dagger + Boots.


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YoonieDaCutie

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Member

05-20-2010

Could you do the numbers again, this time with the red/green elixirs too?


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Remiko Elliot

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Senior Member

05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxnyxnyx View Post
Could you do the numbers again, this time with the red/green elixirs too?
That is a great idea, I will start working on it after I get the Dagger numbers in.
Thank you!


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Brees

Senior Member

05-20-2010

what? no one builds solely attack speed on tf. Unless your going for a bloodrazor's build. you can't just make a blanket statement of when something is better. Some teams will call for the use of the frozen mallet/bloodrazor's attack speed build ( hp stacking/tanky teams) while other teams will call for the damage TF (squishies)


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YoonieDaCutie

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05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voistriser View Post
That is a great idea, I will start working on it after I get the Dagger numbers in.
Thank you!
Np. Also, is it possible to derive a rough estimate of the amount of dodge/armor required before Sword of the Divine becomes more cost-efficient than say...Last Whisper?


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Remiko Elliot

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05-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brees View Post
what? no one builds solely attack speed on tf. Unless your going for a bloodrazor's build. you can't just make a blanket statement of when something is better. Some teams will call for the use of the frozen mallet/bloodrazor's attack speed build ( hp stacking/tanky teams) while other teams will call for the damage TF (squishies)
Sadly enough, this is NOT true. The reason I'm even writing this guide is because people do indeed build solely attack speed.
This guide was written simply to clear up some facts for those who do.

Also, the big problem with Bloodrazor is that it has a lot of stats that are simply not cost-efficient on TF as a damage dealer and does not benefit from the Madred's Razors that it builds from since he is not a jungler. Gold can be spent elsewhere.

In addition to that, the effectiveness of Bloodrazor varies depending on the enemy's team composition. The Damage per HP and the Armor are very situational stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxnyxnyx
Could you do the numbers again, this time with the red/green elixirs too?
Actually, I'm not quite sure where the elixirs would fit. Would you consider it a starting item?
Otherwise, Elixirs are always worth the price if you can net at least 1 kill from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxnyxnyx
Np. Also, is it possible to derive a rough estimate of the amount of dodge/armor required before Sword of the Divine becomes more cost-efficient than say...Last Whisper?
I will look into this.


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Theorycrafter

Senior Member

05-20-2010

I prefer SotD over Last Whisper.
I'd love some math comparing the two combining them with other items or themselves.


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McBruha

Senior Member

05-20-2010

So Phantom Dancer x5 isnt a viable build>?


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