Akali... Nice Concept, Flawed Execution (Especially on Summoner's Rift)

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Pickles

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Senior Member

05-17-2010

Make is so Akali's ult can target friendlys!


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Maledicte

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meta View Post
Mordekaiser
Gangplank
Pantheon (He has a stun, but it brings you to your opponent)
Sivir (unless she ults)
Soraka
Teemo
Twitch
Warwick
Sivir = Ranged
Teemo = ranged
Twitch = ranged
Soraka = ranged + heal + silence = decent survivability
Mordekaiser = Tank with a shield in addition to his health, again = decent survivability

Okay, let me be more specific...A MELEE and NONTANK champion:

That should narrow it down to:
Pantheon
Gangplank
Warwick

Now let me discuss why they don't need one.
Pantheon: Indeed, he is difficult to get away with. I main'd for a while with him, so I definitely know. While his stun does bring you to them, it usually last long enough to make an effective escape, and (a bit overdone) if in a real desperate situation, you can use his Ult to escape. (Not much of an argument here, I'll give you that).

Gangplank:
He can break all CCs. His main DPS is a range.
His Ult is a snare(admitedly, not a game breaker).
Shooting a creep, his movementspeed is increased moderately.

Warwick:
Might be getting somewhat closer. He is a melee class, but his skills grant him moderate ammounts of lifesteal and movement increasements if near half-health champions.


My point here is, Akali is a melee DPS that doesn't have any survivability other than hoping you can kill them before they kill you. She has no way of stunning champions, or of breaking them. She has no way of outrunning, or out tanking.


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LOL luke

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maledicte View Post
Most champions have either:

A) a stun/effective snare

or

B) An escape

Name one champion (other than Akali) that does not have one of these.
morde


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Lyrael

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Of that list, I'd disagree with a lot of them... starting with Mordekaiser. He's a tank... designed from its very inception to take hits.

And Sivir, Soraka, Teemo, and Twitch. Mostly because the last 4 are all ranged characters, which misses the point entirely. Ranged DPS have a natural advantage in the sense that they don't have to be right next to a character to hit them.

This post is about fixing a Melee DPS character (the kind that, IMO, is the hardest to play)

So I'd agree with you that Warwick , Gangplank, and Pantheon in terms of melee DPS. I would then point out that all except Pantheon seem to have something to make up for it.

Warwick's lifesteal is nuts, and he can get a bonus to his movespeed off of blood scent. But still, I'd agree with you there.

Gangplank I'd disagree with, as a mini heal + cleanse, and a movespeed buff on top of that, more than qualify in the terms of allowing him to escape from fights.

Pantheon I would agree with you completely on, but then, I'd also like to point out his passive, which increases his survivability greatly.

Akali has no escape mechanic, and can't really take a hit. So all we're asking for is a viable escape mechanic that allows Akali not to have to totally commit to a fight, knowing that she's going to die, and just hoping she can take out a character or two with her.

Especially on Summoner's Rift, which is where I feel that she is weakest **.

** I'd also like to point out that the bonus armor on Twilight Shroud is laughable. Given that it clearly delineates where you are, saying, more or less 'please AoE me'.


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Somafera

Senior Member

05-17-2010

It looks like the majority of people who downvoted or replied didn't even read what OP wrote.

She will be able to use shadow dance to get away ONCE and only if she's inside the shroud, you use BOTH your major CD ability and one charge of your ultimate.

That just gives her a mild escape mechanic and more synergy between abilities, while not really overpowering anything (being able to simply shadow dash to allies would be a bit too much).

And its obvious that shroud should do something else, like giving MR (that's only logical), but what i really want to see is a different coding for her "stealth", a stealth that actually stops auto-aimed abilities (Kat's ult, ricochet, etc), these with cast/channeling time (getting hit by Garen's ult when you are stealthed is just dumb) or even instant ones (you will get hit if they clicked you when you are visible even thought you actually got stealthed before they launched the ability). That will boost her survivability if your reflexes are decent.

Shroud also used to slow attack speed when she was first released on PTR, why was that removed anyway?


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Incineration

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Senior Member

05-17-2010

Akali's damage is tremendous with minimal gear. You can build her defensive hybrid and have a lot of survivability. You also have to play her intelligently in team fights to prevent getting auto focus 100-0'd.


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Boundless Spring

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrael View Post
It is my personal opinion that Akali is worthless in a 5v5 fight. She does better in 3v3, but the same problems sill exist.

W - Twilight Shroud

Its a nice idea, but the fact that the enemy can see where you're stealthed just means all they have to do is AoE the area. About the only thing its useful for is preventing 40% of auto attacks and targeted abilities while the Shroud lasts. It is not a viable escape mechanic, and I will publicly laugh in the face of anyone who says otherwise. Its slow is negiligable unless you max it out (and even then, its still pretty bad)

Proposed Fix:

Have it give magic resist instead of armor, and a % miss chance on top of the slow (say 20%). The magic resist will really help make it a viable move (seeing as how its outlined for everyone to see the area in which she's stealthed, which is about as big as a lot of character's AoE abilities), and give it some interesting uses in teamfights (the % miss chance and the small slow effect are nice contributions)
It's a good spell, also, it breaks taunt.

You only want one level in it as the levels up are, indeed, negligible. But the slow is AoE and can and will cover for you and your team, and it is one of the most powerful juke mechanism currently in the game. So can you get away in the open with it well? Not really. But if you use it in the jungle it's a great get away.

Also, laying it down in a team fight is VERY advantageous as you can get away then. And you can slow their entire team and hurt their mobility. All those are advantageous uses. Using it in the middle of nowhere to escape a gank however, is not. She has THE BEST chase in the game. She has an AOE slow and a spammable chase move with GARGANTUAN RANGE. If she has that and an escape she is OP. And unlike other melee's she closes distance EXTREMELY well. Not just sort of well. And she does more damage than ranged characters. Build survivability on her, and her going in is justifiable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrael View Post
R - Shadow Dance

Well, this move has an interesting place. Its a very nice ability (great for catching people who are running away), and its an ultimate due to the 2 sec internal cooldown (assuming you have an Essence of Shadow to fuel it). The problem isn't as much with the move itself...

As the fact that as I have already established earlier that Twilight Shroud is not a viable escape mechanic (as it currently is), and you can't really use Shadow Dance to escape, either.

She's a melee DPS, which means that she has as much survivability (perhaps a little less) than a ranged DPS, but has to be in melee ranged to do just about anything. What every other melee DPS has is an escape mechanic ( Nidalee's Pounce + Primal Surge, Kat's Shunpo, Jax's Leap Strike, Garen's Whirlwind + Decisive Strike, etc.) But where is Akali's?

That's right SHE DOESN'T HAVE ONE.

And for those people who say 'take Flash, you pansy', you're silly. The most broken summoner spell in the game is not a viable solution for a genuine lack of an ability to get out of a fight without either killing the other person, or dying (especially as with Akali, you're right in the middle of it). There needs to be an actual way for Akali not to have to totally commit to a fight.

Proposed Fix: (with full credit to Somafera for the idea)

What I really like is the ability that, while in Twilight Shroud, for Akali to be able to target the ground with Shadow Dance. For everyone (including me) who doesn't simply want to see another copy of Kat's Shunpo, it'd be a very cool idea. It wouldn't cost her too much, and it wouldn't break the functionality of really anything (along with giving her more synergy between her skills).

The other fix (admittedly, which might be more simple, but I like less) is to simply allow Akali to Shadow Dance to friendly targets (much like Kat's Shunpo). It works for her, and why fix what isn't broken (my opinions on Kat are another matter entirely)

But please, Riot, there's been a ton of threads about this, and a lot of people who genuinely like the character. If we could just get someone from Riot to simply say that they're aware of the problem, and are considering possible fixes. That's all I'm asking, really.

She doesn't need this, she needs good judgment. When you play her, judge well if you can dish it out enough to kill and get out, or don't go in, in the first place. Her damage potential is extremely high. You need to create situations, rather than run in blind. Which you should do with any char. Akali however gives both more punishment for bad decisions and more reward for good decisions than other champions. Personally I like her that way.

What I'd like to see fixed, if anything, is ignite on the mastery tree counting toward her passive, as well as the full effect of the 3 attack damage (I tried 3 marks of AD and the mastery and the Doran's Blade, it didn't work).

Also, Atma's Impaler is reported not to work. Neither does Janna's shield.


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RiotRocks

Junior Member

05-17-2010

She has the absolute worst survivability of any melee champion in the game.

The ninja/assassin "dart in, dart out" concept only works when you can fulfill the escape portion of it. She has no way to get out of a fight once she commits.


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Boundless Spring

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRocks View Post
She has the absolute worst survivability of any melee champion in the game.

The ninja/assassin "dart in, dart out" concept only works when you can fulfill the escape portion of it. She has no way to get out of a fight once she commits.
You're supposed to kill and not be killed. It's all or nothing. And build survivability, like you are supposed to on any champion, and watch how much you profit. As has been said over and over, simply squishy anything is very bad. And Akali can afford more survival gear because her innate damage potential is so high.


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JohnnyW

Senior Member

05-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRocks View Post
She has the absolute worst survivability of any melee champion in the game.

The ninja/assassin "dart in, dart out" concept only works when you can fulfill the escape portion of it. She has no way to get out of a fight once she commits.
Hi, my name is Eve.

Also, Akali has way too much burst to give her more survivability. FFS, her shroud stealths her even in range of towers!!!!