Hp per lvl seals > dodge seals

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Carados

Senior Member

05-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adalonus View Post
The fact that HP/Lvl helps with turrets is not an argument. you shouldn't be hit by turrets... unless your tower diving. and if you tower dive you shouldn't have to rely on HP/lvl to keep you alive. If you do, you're being way to reckless.
They give you less then one hits worth of HP at level 18.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

05-13-2010

Dodge is just better as a baseline. HP is great late-game, but doesn't provide the same lasting effect that dodge will throughout the game, also dodge offers unseen advantages in teamfights throughout the game, where damage of unknown numbers is completely avoided.


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Eppa

Senior Member

05-13-2010

I did use to like dodge but i feel like its a pretty bad stat, The amount of physical damage is quite small and the amount that can be dodge is even smaller, I think im going to go Mr/level as there is so much magic damage thrown around.


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Incineration

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Senior Member

05-13-2010

Although HP/level isn't very good, I truly think dodge seals are incredibly overrated. 0.75%x9 = 6.5% dodge.

That means your statistical probability of actually dodging something at level 1 is about 15 to 1 against. Not a particularly great statistic, especially for people who don't like to build for and rely on RNG.

Alternately you could get 12.6 armor, 6.5% attack speed or 6.6 MR and by way of either superior sustained defense or superior sustained offense have more effective survivability.

Math is fun and all, but your dodge runes are the most worthless things about your character when you aren't hitting that 15-1 shot, and specifically when it matters. That's something statistics can't account for.


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AnAnarchist

Senior Member

05-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
Dodge is just better as a baseline. HP is great late-game, but doesn't provide the same lasting effect that dodge will throughout the game, also dodge offers unseen advantages in teamfights throughout the game, where damage of unknown numbers is completely avoided.

Better as a baseline? No offense but it isn't. Check leaguecraft and tell me its better. Its just like I said the hp/per lvl seals give more EHP at almost all stages of the game.

Your statement about damage of unknown numbers being avoided is illusionary and shows a lack of understanding.



Consider this.

You have 3000 HP. A melee guy is hitting you for 500 HP a strike. You have 6.75% chance to dodge. On average you will dodge about 1 in 15 strikes. He'll kill you in 6 strikes. So its no help whatsoever on average.

If you took the hp/per lvl you'd have an extra 174.96 health at lvl 18. You'd take 7 strikes to kill.


Consider this.

You have 3000 HP. A melee guy is hitting you for 200 HP a strike. You have 6.75% chance to dodge. On average you will dodge about 1 in 15 strikes. He'd kill you in 15 strikes. On average you'll dodge 1 strike, so it'll take him 16 strikes.

If you took the hp/per lvl you'd have an extra 174.96 health at lvl 18. You'd also take 16 strikes.


Consider this.

You have 3000 HP. A melee guy is hitting you for 100 HP a strike. You have 6.75% chance to dodge. On average you will dodge about 1 in 15 strikes. He'd kill you in 30 strikes. On average you'll dodge 2 strikes, so it'll take him 32 strikes.

If you took the hp/per lvl you'd have an extra 174.96 health at lvl 18. You'd also take 32 strikes.


Before someone says I've used lvl 18 health values, I only did that for simplicitys sake. Obviously earlier in the game dodge runes are more effective against physical damage. However they have no affect on magic damage at any point in the game which is why the hp/ per lvl runes are better lvl 5ish +.

Sorry to single you out but you're a yellow poster and really that is at the heart of the debate here. Everyone thinks dodge runes are better because the best players use them. Frankly the best players are wrong to do so unless the majority of damage being done is physical (not including towers).


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Carados

Senior Member

05-13-2010

Consider this: You have 3100 HP. A guy is hitting you for 200 HP per strike. Your HP/level runes are worthless.


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BarrSupport

Senior Member

05-13-2010

you really cant say one is better than the other. it depends on which champ you play, which runes you are used to, what your playstyle is like, and what champs you vs.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

05-13-2010

I am really starting to think people have no idea what eHP actually is, especially the guy who said 12 armor, 7 resist, or 10% AS > 6.5% dodge.

Nor do they realize the advantage negating damage has over having a minuscule higher pool to absorb damage with.


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Incineration

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Senior Member

05-13-2010

Your dodge runes are also worthless if you don't win the RNG lottery. HP pool also correlates to mitigation via armor and MR (unless I'm misunderstanding how the 1 armor = 1% more phys damage to kill you thing works) while RNGing a dodge is only as vaulable as the attack you dodge and can never be counted on.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

05-13-2010

One armor does not equate to one percent damage mitigation. Armor and Magic Resist work on a curve, Armor quickly, QUICKLY loses efficacy per point (IE: Wasted rune slots) due to level increases in Armor, while Magic Resist runes are a better choice due to MR not increasing per level.

A single dodge will turn the fight in your favor, but taking two or three less damage, early game, from additional armor will not help at all.

Attack speed is unnoticeable in actual DPS increase due to the incredibly low amount of attacks per second gained. You will not gain an extra attack unless they've chased you or you've chased them beyond a tower.

Magic Resist is the only thing that could be argued as a replacement defensively, and then only with MagicResist/Level, which by quickly out strip flat magic resist. But even then, early game you're better off with Dodge Seals and taking MR/Level Glyphs, due to the amount of minion and auto attack damage even from casters early game.

The only reason the mitigation runes can potentially work, is unlike the health runes, they benefit you equally all game, where as the health runes lose their efficacy due to being quickly outpaced by damage.

And armor is not a real choice due to Dodge runes being available, why mitigate 3 or 4 damage, when you will vou can negate entire attacks, especially once you buy Ninja Tabi and are dodging 1 of 5, a 20% decrease to all physical damage before mitigation takes effect.
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