Hp per lvl seals > dodge seals

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Zizzefex

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo7 View Post
Because dodge eliminates damage, it increases your survivability exponentially more than a few dozen hit points will.

HP Runes are taken early game to help with laning, which means Flat HP runes > HP/Level.

In all aspects, HP/Level loses.
Your bad.

Dodge doesn't eliminiate damage until you dodge a attack. And then the damage taken would have to exceed the HP you got from the HP runes (doesn't always happen) for you to have any benefit.

It does not increase your survivability exponentially.... as much as Archangels staffs does not take your AP to infinity. There is a realistic amount of times you can expect to dodge attacks until you die based on your dodge chance and you calculate that appropriately which the OP did.

Stop posting.


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Zizzefex

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carados View Post
You could say they are "More effective at 5-18," but those of us who actually build good items realize that the amount of HP that HP/Level gives you is trivial at all points in the game.

And dodge is better 1-18. Flat HP is better 1-4.

And you're wrong about towers. Still.
Completely wrong once you take into account your armor and their armor pen. That 200 hp at lev 18 will be 600 EHP at 200 armor and 800 EHP at 300 (minus their armor pen).


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hvywpnsguy

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Why is everyone talking just about Physical attacks? Don't you usually die from spells? You rarely die from a physical carry mid game.

If a carry is doing 600 crit dmg per hit, none of those runes will matter, because the game is pretty much over by then. Whether it would be Yi, Trynd, or Ashe, if you dodge one out of their autoattacks, they will still hit you on the next one (Probably). I have both dodge runes and hp/lvl runes. I used to have dodge runes before when I saw pros had them but I like hp/lvl runes now. I like the fact that it gives me a chance to survive one attack from either source of damage. I have flat Hp quint and yellow hp/lvl runes and at lvl 18, I have 275 HP more than my enemies. That allows me to save gold on a HP item and spend more on dmg items.

Saying dodge is better than Hp/lvl runes is like saying 10-20% Crit chance is better than Flat damage.


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peyo

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizzefex View Post
Completely wrong once you take into account your armor and their armor pen. That 200 hp at lev 18 will be 600 EHP at 200 armor and 800 EHP at 300 (minus their armor pen).
cuz every single person is stacking 1246742385636572389 armor and enemies are stupid enough to get no % penetration.

btw, it's 175, not 200


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Rawrzr

Junior Member

07-06-2010

question was this thread do determine which was better overall? Or which was better under different circumstances? If it really mattered couldn't you always use your second rune page?


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hvywpnsguy

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrzr View Post
question was this thread do determine which was better overall? Or which was better under different circumstances? If it really mattered couldn't you always use your second rune page?
Good question. If the enemy was full of dps then no doubt the dodge is better. But If the enemy team is full of stuns, and spells then dodge is useless.


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Kamirga

Senior Member

07-06-2010

From everythign I've read and experience(I will not even attempt to get into statistics I know I don't understand them well enough) the argument is

Potential(dodge) vs Consistency(HP/Lvl)


Some people prefer the consistent boost of hp and the ability to help with spells(i think the argument about towers is total bull****, if you are tower diving you should never rely on your runes, you should on your escape mechanism)

Some people prefer the chance of completely dodging an auto attack or physical skill



Also I 100% agree that with the math HP/Lvl is probably statistically better if you stack it face to face with dodge. However one thing about effective health is that as you gain more of one value, it depreciates against other survivability statistics. AKA the more health you have the more valuble dodge/MR/AR are.

Also we have to consider the practicality of it, the real life situation.


1) Health is a much easier stat to come by and also much easier to counter.
2) Dodge is a stat rarely found on items and has only 1 counter in the game currently(SotD)
3) Most carries/casters will get at least a single health item in their build and often a MR/AR one as well.
4) Late game the small amount of health you will get from your runes(and it is small, just like the amount of dodge you would get) will very rarely protect you from a burst caster, whose job is specifically to put out enough damage to overkill you so that you can't be healed through it.
5) The relatively low chance of dodge will not frequently help you against a physical carry, however there is a noticible difference in your survivability against physical champions.
6) The ability to dodge on-hit skills(Parley, Mystic Shot, TF Gold card, and potentially more(maybe panth's spear/HSS but i doubt it) is something that offers an intangible benefit that cannot be measured by any kind of statistical analysis that I'm aware of
7) Health helps you in a straight fight from 100%-0% health.
8) Dodge helps you much more in the current "Poke and Heal" meta game, where small amounts of damage are consistently traded, sure you maybe be able to handle a little more harassment with Hp/lvl but with dodge you will statistically be dodging alot of the auto attack harassment



I feel that in the current environment, with constant harassment so common, with burst casters drop huge overkilling loads of damage upon people, and with the intangible benefits of dodge that it clearly reigns supreme over HP/lvl but I could see where HP/lvl would be preferable.


Statistics don't lie, but statistics very rarely tell the whole truth, there are alot of other factors that can't be measured.


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icantswim

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Member

07-06-2010

hp/lvl runes don't make people RAGE when they miss me 3 times in a row and end up dieing instead.


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Carados

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizzefex View Post
Completely wrong once you take into account your armor and their armor pen. That 200 hp at lev 18 will be 600 EHP at 200 armor and 800 EHP at 300 (minus their armor pen).
Did you read my post?


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hvywpnsguy

Senior Member

07-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by icantswim View Post
hp/lvl runes don't make people RAGE when they miss me 3 times in a row and end up dieing instead.
you were lucky that they didnt hit you 3 times in a row