Champion Stats FAQ

123456 ... 10
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Larias

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Adjudicator

05-10-2010

Updating Ninja Tabi, thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TrojanHorse

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-10-2010

Flat armor/magic pen (if I'm not mistaken) applies before a percentage based armor/magic pen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Larias

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Adjudicator

05-10-2010

You're mistaken


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kajitii

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-10-2010

Any skill that just enhances the default attack can be dodged AFAIK. Ashe's Frost Shot and Nasus' Siphon Strike come to mind.


You can see MR without opening up your character stats window, you do not need to press C. Additionally, you can see your attack range stat in the same window.


If it helps new players, Armor and MR reduction sources can be thought of as "debuffs" to the character, rather than as part of your attack like penetration is. I have yet to find an exception to this.


Decrease attack speed debuffs have diminishing returns just like dodge. You cannot make someone's attack speed tank to 0.00. If you need proof of this, I can provide research data upon request (although it's one I'd rather not share to the public due to "certain" conditions).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RHINO Mk II

Senior Member

05-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregan View Post
flash does prevent any projectile in the air (must be in the air already) from hitting you.
I have seen a few cases where it didn't; most often these occured when the flasher did not flash directly away from the player who launched the projectile. I think that you may still be hit if you flash to a location inside the original cast radius. Although this doesn't happen often because people use flash to run away more frequently, it is worth mentioning.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TrojanHorse

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larias View Post
You're mistaken
That seems wrong to me. 50 Armor pen + 50% armor pen should not bring someone with 100 armor down to 0, as it would if percentage is applied first.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RHINO Mk II

Senior Member

05-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
That seems wrong to me. 50 Armor pen + 50% armor pen should not bring someone with 100 armor down to 0, as it would if percentage is applied first.
ALWAYS this order:
Flat REDUCTION
PERCENTAGE penetration
FLAT penetration

thus 50% pen and 50 flat pen would take you to zero, but 50 reduction and 50% pen would not.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TrojanHorse

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHINO Mk II View Post
ALWAYS this order:
Flat REDUCTION
PERCENTAGE penetration
FLAT penetration

thus 50% pen and 50 flat pen would take you to zero, but 50 reduction and 50% pen would not.
To me, that is ridiculous. Stacking percentage based and flat penetration should reduce the effectiveness overall, not increase the effectiveness. Percentage debuffs should -always- be applied after flat debuffs, otherwise all but the tanks will suffer greatly. If flat is really after percentage, then Last Whisper is -the best- dps item in the game.

29 ArP from Runes
6 ArP from Masteries
15 ArP from Brutalizer
40% ArP from Last Whisper
-------------------------------
50 ArP + 40% ArP

100 Armor = 10 armor remaining.
200 Armor = 70 armor remaining.
Anything less than 85 armor results in full damage.

Now, what is the justification for it working this way? Everything else that's similar has diminishing returns, but a single item results in approximately a 27% increase in DPS against a 100 armor target -without- considering any of the attack speed or attack damage portions. Percentage and flat penetration this way works entirely too well together.

Here are some numbers:
If you have 0 flat armor pen, Last Whisper reduces the opponent's armor by 40%.
As soon as you add in a certain amount of flat armor penetration, Last Whisper starts to decrease the opponent's armor by -more- than 40% -- anywhere between 40% and 100% depending on the opponent's armor and the amount of flat penetration. My previous example, 100 armor and 50 armor penetration, the difference is 40 armor total between last whisper and no -- 50 armor vs 10 armor. That gives Last whisper an effective 80% armor reduction percentage, and 27% additional DPS. Flat reduction is applied before a percentage change, why is flat penetration any different?

How -should- it work then? Flat reduction, flat penetration, then percentage reduction. In order to reduce someone to 0 armor, the flat reduction and penetration would have to be greater than or equal to their armor. A percentage reduction in armor should not lower the amount of armor pen necessary to reduce someone to 0!

This may not be the right place for something like this, but I feel it's an extremely important issue that affects game balance considerably.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kajitii

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
To me, that is ridiculous. Stacking percentage based and flat penetration should reduce the effectiveness overall, not increase the effectiveness. Percentage debuffs should -always- be applied after flat debuffs, otherwise all but the tanks will suffer greatly. If flat is really after percentage, then Last Whisper is -the best- dps item in the game.
What you think it should be, is not what it is. In this case, this design decision would probably be strongly influenced by Riot's intent that games should be short and aggressive.

Just be thankful that you're not allowed to make the enemy's armor go negative with penetration items.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

My name is Mark

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

05-11-2010

Is the 10% cap on dodge from runes myth or reality???


123456 ... 10