Elementz 5v5 Tier List (Draft Mode)

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FlyingBlueShell

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Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFab View Post
After looking at this list I have decided to make Ashe my ranged carry champion. However, normally I feel like I'm not doing enough damage. A friend suggested getting sword of the occult but I hate stacking items and find them so risky. My current build is

9/0/21

ghost/cleanse or ghost/ignite

Red: Crit Chance
Blue: MR
Yellow: Mp5/level
Quints: Health

Doran's blade
BF Sword
Boots 1
Pickaxe
Merc Treads
Infinity Edge
Bloodrazor or Last Whisper

I feel like I'm not doing enough damage or something is missing. I can correct the runes (as I see issues with them) but the item build is lacking something and I don't know what. BTW I can normally farm a BF Sword and boots by the first time I recall.
First of all, why are you going 9/0/21 masteries? If you really want to be a late game carry and not a volley spam bot you should definitely spec 21/0/9

and for runes, I wouldn't recommend crit chance, armor penetration is generally more commonly used, as it's more useful throughout the entire game and crit chance is basically rng dependent.


Also you're build is fine, you really should be doing enough damage with those items...personally I would recommend you get a banshees veil on their, the extra magic resist, and obviously the shield help a ton on ashe and dissuade people from attacking you in general.

Oh and maybe try out boots of swiftness on her, I actually prefer them, I feel like if I get stunned, I'm already dead on her.

Ashe really excels at team initiating with her arrow, and staying in the back and auto attacking. Also kiting obviously..

Hope this helps a bit, if you're still having problems go to leaguecraft and read a guide

Edit: Oh yea, and i Found if you're not mid, starting brutalizer helps a ton, you can build it into ghostblade later on if you wish

Otherwise if your mid, rush IE


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Bobap

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Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marid King View Post
sooo close to post 10,000. That is so stupidly big I do not think I have ever seen anything that even begins to compare on a game forum. Even the Terran OP Hatred Shelter pales in comparison.
Try 1,000.


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SilasBane

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11-09-2010

Page 1000, bobap...many more posts. If you're going to be an ass, you should probably try to be correct.


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Unr3alAnGeR

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFab View Post
After looking at this list I have decided to make Ashe my ranged carry champion. However, normally I feel like I'm not doing enough damage. A friend suggested getting sword of the occult but I hate stacking items and find them so risky. My current build is

9/0/21

ghost/cleanse or ghost/ignite

Red: Crit Chance
Blue: MR
Yellow: Mp5/level
Quints: Health

Doran's blade
BF Sword
Boots 1
Pickaxe
Merc Treads
Infinity Edge
Bloodrazor or Last Whisper

I feel like I'm not doing enough damage or something is missing. I can correct the runes (as I see issues with them) but the item build is lacking something and I don't know what. BTW I can normally farm a BF Sword and boots by the first time I recall.
1. Ashe is harder to play than most ranged carries. She hits hard, but she doesn't have the raw DPS of Kog, Twitch or MF. You do have an ultimate that is an amazing initiation, a free scout every minute, one of the best pokes in the game and the ability to kite. Using these is what makes Ashe great, rather than just her damage.

2. SotO is only good if you are roflstomping early which is pretty rare for Ashe. Leave that item to a Shaco or Pantheon who are attempting to snowball out of control.

3. Run flash 100%. Best escape mechanism, so use it. Ghost is generally the best other one, but teleport and cleanse both have their uses.

4. Reds = Arpen. No questions. Arpen quints are good too but flat HP fine as well.

5. I run mp5/lvl seals and glyphs, but if you don't have mana problems leave them as is.

6. Build is fine. Don't neglect banshees straight after whisper though. Or pots.

7. 21/0/9 masteries


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Vortaine

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destawn View Post
She plays different then all those characters though. I don't think she's as useless as much as people say, fair enough I don't play at a high ELO but people make her sound utterly useless when she can still contribute good burst, stun, jungling, and stealth abilities to her team.

The problem is her playstyle isn't viable in the current meta in my opinion.
The problem is that she is fundamentally her skillset is terrible and she is easily countered, and nigh unplayable past 1200 elo, unless your team carries her or their team sucks. I don't play high elo by any stretch (1400 in 3v3, 1300 solo), but what you have to understand, and I love eve and how she plays, is that she is a detriment to the team.

I mean, if you play her AP, she is basically a melee caster with no escape / an escape that is countered by wards and/or and oracles. If you play her AD, none of her skills save her ult have any cohesion and you basically play a sub-par auto attack champion spamming hatespike which does piddly damage without some AP.

And once again, its not that she doesn't contribute anything, because any good player can and usually does, its just that, to reiterate: the deck is stacked against her. She is easily countered, requires a massive buildup, and every other champion does what she wants to do better. Need a carry? Tank? Tanky DPS? Nuker? Stealther? She excels at none of these where others do.

Lets say you wanna jungle. I've heard arguments that she is a decent counter-jungle, but lets compare her vs Nunu (who I play a lot).

Nunu runs fast, and I'd say barring almost any champion with a blink/flash, he is one of the most potent escapers and jungle runners on the 5v5 map.

He also has consume, which is one of the best abilities for jungling and laning, and great for staying power and taking out cannon creeps.

He has lots of HP, can pass his speed and attack speed buff to another player, like a carry.

He also has a great slow/attack speed debuff, and his ultimate that scatters teams or forces them to blow cc on him.

He can be an offtank or pure ap, or tanky ap.

Nunu however, is only Tier 3 on draft mode 5v5 (which isn't bad, of course), but compare that to eve, and ask yourself, what does she do as well, or better, than another champion and what does she bring to the team? If you have to stretch, it helps explain Elementz's choices on where they fit into his list.


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MathMage

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marid King View Post
sooo close to post 10,000. That is so stupidly big I do not think I have ever seen anything that even begins to compare on a game forum. Even the Terran OP Hatred Shelter pales in comparison.
I've seen threads that had to be restarted several times due to forum restrictions on thread length, whose total length was greater than this one's. But this one definitely takes the cake for longest individual thread.


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MarsCollective

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Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enahr26 View Post
No one help this person, please.
Someone ban this person, please.

@Guy who asked for help:

In order not to make a huge wall of text like others who tried to help you out (and maybe accomplished but Im too lazy atm to read ), here is my humble opinion:

EDIT: It ended being a wall of text anyway, which probably makes me a hypocrite now, sorry here it goes:

Change Red Marks to Arm Pen.
Maybe (just maybe) Quints to Arm Pen (Health is better imo, but if you really really want more damage..).

Masteries 21 offensive if you want more raw damage, 21 utility for more survab since you will have ghost/flash more often (which should be your summoner spells IMO), and you get to have more mana reg, MS, etc. I just like 21 utility better.

Important tips to have in mind:

  • After IE, always try to rush/keep Christmas Pots on you, it's OP--- sorta (Christmas Pots = Red/Green Elixirs, the synergy with IE is just insane).

  • You could try rushing a second Doran Blade for an early advantage and more survab, but as snowballing items, its high "risk" high reward, since you need to get the best out of it, if you do nothing by having this early-game advantage you probably wasted 200g. Its less "risk" more "reward" than snowballing items tho, so its usually a good purchase anyway.

  • Always check/analyze the enemy team before your purchases. Are they CC/Mage Heavy? Get Mercs. Phys heavy? Ninja. Feeling powerful tonight? Zerk greaves. Feeling like crazy builds? SS (is it a normal/ranked match? dont..).

    Are they stacking armor? Rushing Brutalizer can help tons, otherwise a late Black Cleaver can do the job. Stacking health? Bloodrazor on their faces.

    Etc etc.


However keep in mind you're the Ranged DPS Carry, so in "general", rushing IE+Xmas Pots is the way to go, the faster you get this, the faster/easier their faces will be melt, so start improving your CS ability! (last hit, last hit, last hit.. if you feel you last hitted enough, you're not even close)

This is solely my opinion on what Ive done and seen by higher elo players, but as it works for me, it might not work for you but hope it does!

Cheers.

EDIT: Also, read UnrealAnger's post a few earlier posts than this one (on this same page), he correctly explained what Ashe is and specially what she is not, better than I could have if I had to, +1 to this sir.


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oricraftoric

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsCollective View Post
Someone ban this person, please.

@Guy who asked for help:

In order not to make a huge wall of text like others who tried to help you out (and maybe accomplished but Im too lazy atm to read ), here is my humble opinion:

EDIT: It ended being a wall of text anyway, which probably makes me a hypocrite now, sorry here it goes:

Change Red Marks to Arm Pen.
Maybe (just maybe) Quints to Arm Pen (Health is better imo, but if you really really want more damage..).

Masteries 21 offensive if you want more raw damage, 21 utility for more survab since you will have ghost/flash more often (which should be your summoner spells IMO), and you get to have more mana reg, MS, etc. I just like 21 utility better.

Important tips to have in mind:
  • After IE, always try to rush/keep Christmas Pots on you, it's OP--- sorta (Christmas Pots = Red/Green Elixirs, the synergy with IE is just insane).

  • You could try rushing a second Doran Blade for an early advantage and more survab, but as snowballing items, its high "risk" high reward, since you need to get the best out of it, if you do nothing by having this early-game advantage you probably wasted 200g. Its less "risk" more "reward" than snowballing items tho, so its usually a good purchase anyway.

  • Always check/analyse the enemy team before your purchases. Are they CC/Mage Heavy? Get Mercs. Phys heavy? Ninja. Feeling powerful tonight? Zerk greaves. Feeling like crazy builds? SS (is it a normal/ranked match? dont..).

    Are they stacking armor? Rushing Brutalizer can help tons, otherwise a late Black Cleaver can do the job. Stacking health? Bloodrazor on their faces.

    Etc etc.


However keep in mind you're the Ranged DPS Carry, so in "general", rushing IE+Xmas Pots is the way to go, the faster you get this, the faster/easier their faces will be melt, so start improving your CS ability! (last hit, last hit, last hit.. if you feel you last hitted enough, you're not even close)

This is solely my opinion on what Ive done and seen by higher elo players, but as it works for me, it might not work for you but hope it does!

Cheers.
This. @who ever asked for help, refer this, good guide


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Samwow

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Junior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marid King View Post
sooo close to post 10,000. That is so stupidly big I do not think I have ever seen anything that even begins to compare on a game forum. Even the Terran OP Hatred Shelter pales in comparison.
Super Smash Brothers forums has much longer threads. The Connecticut regional player finder thread has over 80,000... and that's just Connecticut.


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hardballzdeep

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Senior Member

11-09-2010

Playing any Ranged DPS well is very much dependent on how well you can last hit. The faster you get your IE, the more exponential the benefit of having the IE is. If you can get it before anyone has armor or any good items, you will melt people and the difference is huge.