[Guide] Hyfe's Guide to the Competitive Nasus (The Teamwrecker)

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omgacow

Senior Member

05-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfe View Post
I agree that Starks is great but not that Nasus should have it every game. Hopefully there is another champion on your team suited to carry it. I've found that in higher ELO it's much more difficult to pull of a pure DPS build as you become quickly CCed and focused down, making your devastating Ult nigh useless. More defensive oriented items will prolong your life in a coordinated match. However, if you are playing as the secondary tank with a good initiator (say Amumu), and you have 2 other DPSers on your team who will greatly benefit, it would definitely be smart to carry a Starks for them.
I grab cleanse+merc treads as well as defensive masteries to deal with this problem, and starks + the hp from your ultimate gives you a ton of survivability with lifesteal and such.

Dont get me wrong, ive played both kinds of nasuses and they are both very viable and amazing, but there are better tanks IMO (shen lol) while nasus is a scary farmer/tower pusher/dps


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Hyfe

Senior Member

05-10-2010

I'd have to agree with everything you just said. At this point shen pretty much outshines all tanks though, not just Nasus, and I hope he gets nerfed at least a little, sooner rather than later.

As far as the build, different strokes for different folks, I guess. I've found that I'm able to be much more effective in pushes and team battles with my Aegis and at least 1 tank item before I add on any other DPS aside from my sheen, but we might have had different experiences based off many different variables. I used to be able to be pretty successful with an earlier starks every now and then... but I couldn't count on it every game. I find that with my build I'm able to be very successful pretty much ALL the time, assuming my team isn't utter trash.


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DayInTheSun

Senior Member

05-10-2010

I played against a DPS Nasus once. He could three shot anyone on our team but we realized how big of a threat he was and we just three shot him ourselves.


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Wig Bang

Junior Member

05-10-2010

I personally think sheen is overrated as a damage item, the proc doesn't really add that much damage.

As for how I like to play Nasus, I like going 21/9/0 with mana regen blues and yellows with a few dodge mixed in. I go tank items + youmuu's ghostblade as my dps item. I feel overall ghostblade is superior to sheen. Nasus is more a hybrid dps/tank than anything else.


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inept

Member

05-10-2010

an item that costs 1k more is better? no wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyynoooooo nnoononono Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy nooooooooooooooooooo
way


and lol offensive masteries. trash on almost all champs with the rally nerf.


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Hyfe

Senior Member

05-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wig Bang View Post
I personally think sheen is overrated as a damage item, the proc doesn't really add that much damage.

As for how I like to play Nasus, I like going 21/9/0 with mana regen blues and yellows with a few dodge mixed in. I go tank items + youmuu's ghostblade as my dps item. I feel overall ghostblade is superior to sheen. Nasus is more a hybrid dps/tank than anything else.

I'm inclined to think that any person that says sheen is overrated on Nasus and that it doesn't add that much damage simply does not understand the mechanics of Sheen's Siphon Strike proc. Let me clear it up for you and if you still feel the same, then we can agree to disagree. But you're an idiot.

Sheen does 80% of your base damage on spell cast to your next attack. So whenever you use wither, SF, ult, sure, yeah... so at lvl 18 if you have a base damage of 116 (which you do) that's 92 extra damage. Wow that's pretty good considering you cast a lot of spells.

However, that's nothing outstanding. But that's not what I'm talking about when I say it procs with SS. What I'm saying here is this:

Maxed siphon strike does a standard of 110 extra damage, plus your +2 for every last hit. Let's be real conservative here and say you last hit 50 creeps. That's 100 more damage. That's 210 damage. That damage is counted as base damage. That means it's 210 more damage to go into your sheen's calculation. That means your effective base damage is now 116+210 = 326. Now take your 80% of 326 = 260. That's the extra damage sheen just gave you. Every SS. Which has a CD of 5 seconds, assuming you have no CDR from golem or frozen heart. 326 without sheen. 586 with sheen. It **** near DOUBLES your siphon strike, which has unlimited potential for growth, and it costs like 1250.

Let's be more aggressive with our calculation and say you got 100 last hits. That's 110 base bonus + 200 from last hits + 116 base dmg = 426 siphon strike. 80% of that is 340. You just added 340 damage by having sheen and are Siphon Striking for 766 dmg.

Hopefully you just didn't understand the calculation.

Otherwise you are plain bat **** crazy if you don't think it's a worthwhile item.


You could also think about it this way: essentially instead of adding +2 dmg every time you get a SS last hit, you are adding +3.6.


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YinYie

Member

05-10-2010

Very nice Guide! Respect, i wrote a guide on Nasus myself eu forums... well its actually one of the best ones :P (not my opinion, communitys opinion :P)
45 22 stats in random games only is ok i guess ^^

so far i really like ur guide there are many things which are same for example:
i tend to solo mid
start pushing at lvl 5 so i can take golem as soon as i got my ultimate
about the playstile ur absolutely correct
skill order is nice (i do it slightly diffrent and max siphoning before wither but ok; playstile ^^)


but the items, ooooh dear. Whilst i understand that they might work out nice i have to say:
im doin it absolutely diffrent that aint smth bad but maybe i can show you with a diffrent way to build him :P

i start out with +200 mana and 2 healthpots
afterwards i get sheen + mercury threads (so far not that diffrent)
then my usual (allmighty xD ok some changes as banshees included) build is as follows:

trinity force (gices nasus everything he needs this **** is absolutely aweesome on nasus)

warmogs (for a lil bonushp, and nasus farming is awesome so the cap is reached fast)

atmas impaler (my little "infinity edge" :P guess what with 4k hp lategame i get + 80 dmg + armor + critchance for 2.4k gold this item is awesum )

items i integer randomly if needed:
infinity (if ive got no trouble with dying)
banshees (nukers ... i dont like them ... well they dont like banshees)
thornmail (think why is obvious)
Sunfire (sometimes if my team lacks suviveability)
Youmuus (holy **** this item is almost made for the slow nasus (move + attackspeed bonus is worth gold)
Raduins Omen (also new, and also nice :P)
other stuff like this ^^

if i get it all im unbeatable one on one and one vs 3 is mostly no problem also (nasus the guy with the incredible lategame :P)


Btw.: The idea with the Ghostcamp is AWESOME! thanks for that didnt do it till now :P


one question i got:
didnt meet another real good nasus player, so please tell me:
am i in time with my farm or can u do it faster? My farmtarget on lane is trinity force + basic boots after 16-17 minutes.... thats pretty fast, but are u doin 4.5k gold faster :-/ cuz i aint sure


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Wig Bang

Junior Member

05-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfe View Post
I'm inclined to think that any person that says sheen is overrated on Nasus and that it doesn't add that much damage simply does not understand the mechanics of Sheen's Siphon Strike proc. Let me clear it up for you and if you still feel the same, then we can agree to disagree. But you're an idiot.

Sheen does 80% of your base damage on spell cast to your next attack. So whenever you use wither, SF, ult, sure, yeah... so at lvl 18 if you have a base damage of 116 (which you do) that's 92 extra damage. Wow that's pretty good considering you cast a lot of spells.

However, that's nothing outstanding. But that's not what I'm talking about when I say it procs with SS. What I'm saying here is this:

Maxed siphon strike does a standard of 110 extra damage, plus your +2 for every last hit. Let's be real conservative here and say you last hit 50 creeps. That's 100 more damage. That's 210 damage. That damage is counted as base damage. That means it's 210 more damage to go into your sheen's calculation. That means your effective base damage is now 116+210 = 326. Now take your 80% of 326 = 260. That's the extra damage sheen just gave you. Every SS. Which has a CD of 5 seconds, assuming you have no CDR from golem or frozen heart. 326 without sheen. 586 with sheen. It **** near DOUBLES your siphon strike, which has unlimited potential for growth, and it costs like 1250.

Let's be more aggressive with our calculation and say you got 100 last hits. That's 110 base bonus + 200 from last hits + 116 base dmg = 426 siphon strike. 80% of that is 340. You just added 340 damage by having sheen and are Siphon Striking for 766 dmg.

Hopefully you just didn't understand the calculation.

Otherwise you are plain bat **** crazy if you don't think it's a worthwhile item.


You could also think about it this way: essentially instead of adding +2 dmg every time you get a SS last hit, you are adding +3.6.
Umm are you sure about that? Instead of randomly calling me an idiot did you actually bother testing what you are saying? Cause last time I tried it out it didn't seem to multiply the extra damage from siphon strike. If what you say is true, then Nasus should be able hit 1k crits on creeps with just a triforce using siphon strike. 110 base bonuse + 200 from last hits + 116 base dmg = 426 siphon strike damage. 426 base damage X 230%= 979.8. With crit and attack damage from trinity force: 979.8 + 156= 1135.8. This simply does not happen. You can really only reach 1k crits in game with another dps item like infinity edge from what I have seen.

I'm pretty sure sheen doesn't multiply the damage, please actually check before you call me an idiot.


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Hyfe

Senior Member

05-11-2010

First, I wasn't calling you an idiot, what I meant to imply was that if you understand the calculation and the results and still think it's a bad item choice, THEN you are an idiot. Apologies for the confusion there.

And yes the SS does count as base damage and is factored into Sheens proc. I regularly siphon strike for 500-700 towards the end of games.

And yes, you can crit for that much. Your crit chance is pretty low so it's rare that you'll catch it on a SS, but it can happen.

It's that good.


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MBirk

Senior Member

05-11-2010

I am pretty sure you are wrong Hyfe.

If ss did add to base, and add the ult. You would be seeing 2k crit SS's constantly with nasus.
I don't think I've hit for over 800.

Which would make sense for a (110+200SS+60ult)x2 crit+85sheen=825ish. Give or take with more +damage, and armor.