More Magic Resist?

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Rendruk

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Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsafe View Post
It is true that an all ad team will get countered much easier than an all ap team... (1 frozen heart, 1 omen, and thornmails all around) However if they do have ap u still have tons of choices for defence which DO NOT have to interrupt your build.

Banshee's veil lets you laugh at 1 ability of the 2-4 damaging abilities they have while giving hp+mana.
FoN gives so many bonuses it's ridiculous(atmogs+FoN/RoA+FoN are fun hybrid defense/offense orientated builds).

And don't forget about the quicksilver... "You dropped a bear on my head, sent a wall of flame at me, threw fireballs at my face, exhausted me and then lit me on fire when I was low hp but I pulled out my sash and it was k."

Hexdrinker for AD casters.
Wits end for auto attackers.
GA for anti AD oriented teams.
Aegis for supports.
Lich for auto attacking casters.
Mercs for anti CC teams.
Spirit visage for champs with innate self heals.
Chalice for mana.
Abyssal scepter for MR reduction.

Only armor items that do anything other than defense really are atmas, hourglass, and razor.

TL;DR: MR items add to your build, Armor items are bought as after thoughts specifically for defense.

I think the real problem is that you are generally facing maybe one to two AP's, or, one AP and two hybrid/half AP characters (such as Kayle or Jax -- Kayle btw shredding 15% of your MR, and shredding 15% more from masteries, and 5% more again in dominion)...

Anyway -- you can easily get up to 200+ armor with one armor item and your base armor, but you have to go out of your builds way to get 200+ MR

and you can't tell me a veigar can't burst you down with all his CD's and a deathfire grasp... he can... and the reason? No MR!

I mean that list you gave like "Spirit visage". That's going to go on some support with 30 MR to begin with, and what, 60 MR total? That's nothing! 30 gone from runes and boots, then 15% more from masteries, So down from 60 to 25.5 rounded up to 26. Now remember, many veigars build a Haunting Guise as well, and it's included for Veigar in the #1 build on Mobafire -- so you're down to around 6 Magic resistence with your good ole spirit visage example.

Now, there are many AD carries that might get a Last Whisper (although this is actually pretty rare) But if you've 200 AR, then you'll still have 120 (as opposed to 6 MR). Maybe they'll have 25 armor penetration runes, and 6 more from masteries -- You'll then have 99.4 Armor (because the 40% is subtracted after base penetrations). Actually last whisper hurts your rune page because it's turning your 31 armor pen into 20. Still, 100 is greater than 6... and the odds of you finding someone with last whisper and 31 armor penetration at the same time (inefficiency) is low.


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Dragonsafe

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rendruk View Post
I think the real problem is that you are generally facing maybe one to two AP's, or, one AP and two hybrid/half AP characters (such as Kayle or Jax -- Kayle btw shredding 15% of your MR, and shredding 15% more from masteries, and 5% more again in dominion)...

Anyway -- you can easily get up to 200+ armor with one armor item and your base armor, but you have to go out of your builds way to get 200+ MR

and you can't tell me a veigar can't burst you down with all his CD's and a deathfire grasp... he can... and the reason? No MR!
Kayle still deals physical damage even when using her e... she just adds 60+.2 ap magic damage per attack. while she shreds 15% or ur MR and armor, not as bad as nida traps but still annoying I agree. + its not "shredding 15% more from masteries" its penetrating 15% more, thus only 15% of the 85% u have left. (Flat reduction>% reduction>% penetration) however the splash deals her attack damage as magic damage but doesnt apply the reduction of mr. And with Kayle's reckoning there really is no point talking about MR or Armor cause she's dealing 10% increased damage to you anyway.

Jax is a different beast, 1v1 fight Jax will normally win, except maybe against a teemo w/ br+SotD or a TF with SotD or a nuker(read:annie), regardless of your defenses. But in team fights where you can expect def to do something, wits end is a great thing for aa champs, hexdrinker is also pretty good, or a good old banshees will do the trick nicely vs jax. With more than 1 high magic damage champ then a FoN becomes the item of choice simply because it allows for kiting/skill shot dodging if you react fast enough due to its move speed boost.

As for viegar... try this, burst him or banshees=> misses 1 skill and he wont finish you. banshees also works well against other combo champs like Lablanc, annie, anivia,etc.

On a side note: I love trolling veigars as nidalee... see his animation for his stun, press pounce... stun dodged...?...profit.
If viegar is really good you can just buy a quicksilver, cleanse his stun and keep dodging his darkmatter. his ult does do crazy damage but his darkmatter is what makes him+ quicksilver gives +54mr.

1 more thing to remember about crazy damage casters, when they use their skills on you or on a teammate you know have 5~20 seconds to kill them and not take anything from them. (Beware Karth and Cass tho)

The cool thing about banshees is that it gives HP as well as MR. Simple fact, MR/Armor increase the %hp u need to do to kill someone. Every 1 point means 1% more damage required, thus 100MR means 50% reduced damage. So building HP and defense is much more effective than just straight mr. A atmogs+FoN is also a really good way to get tons of tankiness vs magic and physical and give tons of damage.

Anyway we don't need 100% damage reduction... as that's infinite armor and mr... ~100 mr will do the trick as long as you have some hp to back it up. (3k hp+100mr-15%mpen means 5.55k damage required)

Ur numbers are screwed up... % reduction goes AFTER flat and % penetration goes AFTER reduction... other way around is OP XD

Edit: oh ninja'd at the end there...
And spirit Visage goes on more tanky champs suck as mundo, ww, irelia with innate high mr/hp to begin with.


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Rendruk

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Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsafe View Post
Kayle still deals physical damage even when using her e... she just adds 60+.2 ap magic damage per attack. while she shreds 15% or ur MR and armor, not as bad as nida traps but still annoying I agree. + its not "shredding 15% more from masteries" its penetrating 15% more, thus only 15% of the 85% u have left. (Flat reduction>% reduction>% penetration) however the splash deals her attack damage as magic damage but doesnt apply the reduction of mr. And with Kayle's reckoning there really is no point talking about MR or Armor cause she's dealing 10% increased damage to you anyway.

Jax is a different beast, 1v1 fight Jax will normally win, except maybe against a teemo w/ br+SotD or a TF with SotD or a nuker(read:annie), regardless of your defenses. But in team fights where you can expect def to do something, wits end is a great thing for aa champs, hexdrinker is also pretty good, or a good old banshees will do the trick nicely vs jax. With more than 1 high magic damage champ then a FoN becomes the item of choice simply because it allows for kiting/skill shot dodging if you react fast enough due to its move speed boost.

As for viegar... try this, burst him or banshees=> misses 1 skill and he wont finish you. banshees also works well against other combo champs like Lablanc, annie, anivia,etc.

On a side note: I love trolling veigars as nidalee... see his animation for his stun, press pounce... stun dodged...?...profit.
If viegar is really good you can just buy a quicksilver, cleanse his stun and keep dodging his darkmatter. his ult does do crazy damage but his darkmatter is what makes him+ quicksilver gives +54mr.

1 more thing to remember about crazy damage casters, when they use their skills on you or on a teammate you know have 5~20 seconds to kill them and not take anything from them. (Beware Karth and Cass tho)

The cool thing about banshees is that it gives HP as well as MR. Simple fact, MR/Armor increase the %hp u need to do to kill someone. Every 1 point means 1% more damage required, thus 100MR means 50% reduced damage. So building HP and defense is much more effective than just straight mr. A atmogs+FoN is also a really good way to get tons of tankiness vs magic and physical and give tons of damage.

Anyway we don't need 100% damage reduction... as that's infinite armor and mr... ~100 mr will do the trick as long as you have some hp to back it up. (3k hp+100mr-15%mpen means 5.55k damage required)


Edit: oh ninja'd at the end there...
Ur numbers are screwed up... % reduction goes AFTER flat and % penetration goes AFTER reduction... other way around is OP XD


I mainly play dominion no BV -- and u don't have 100% hp 100% of the time.


So yah u can survive Veigar burst... if you have full health and if you have a BV and IF it happens to be up. Or QSS that also happens to be up, but the point is ur taking massive dmg cuz you have little to no resistance. So at the very best you're going to have to go back to heal and be worthless for the next 15 seconds or so... all because no decent MR.


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Dragonsafe

Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rendruk View Post
I mainly play dominion no BV -- and u don't have 100% hp 100% of the time.
ahhh kk ya odyn's is a poor replacement to banshees, but I guess the charged up return damage is kinda nice. But it does what it was intended to do by taking out banshees, make people die easier to burst. One of the many things that makes hybrids so strong on dominion.
Another MR item on SR is unnecessary, but on Dominion it might be simply because of the hybrid damage output potential.


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Thubgar

Senior Member

11-06-2011

HP slows down AP a lot more than it does AD.


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Rendruk

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Senior Member

11-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thubgar View Post
HP slows down AP a lot more than it does AD.
Ppl say this but I'd rather have resistances, because you run based upon what percentage of green bar you have showing, and when you have a lot of HP your bar is going to drop deceptively quicker than it would if you had a lot of resistances.

When your HP hits a certain mark with high resistance, you're going to react and run -- and probably have time to do so. Seems to work for me at least. Of course I guess that if you have high hp than 20% hp is going to be more than 20% hp with just high resistances, so maybe the time you have to react will be the exact same. I don't know...

But it depends upon what type of damage you're taking. I'd rather have high armor than high HP against a Wukong hitting me in the back. HP Is just less effective because it helps against both types of damage... so if you're only taking one type...


And yes there are so many hybrid damage dealers in Dominion and when you're trying to play tanky you have to pay attention to both your resistances, and then choose between health or damage. If you choose health then basically you do no damage.

In fact, this is why tanks are gay! They have to get health, armor, and magic resistance... but then how in the world will they have the slots of the gold to actually be a threat?

TLR: You're always going to be weak in one area, so you might as well just max your damage and rape someone to make it simple.


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iP1ayJarvan

Senior Member

11-06-2011

i don't want a super MR item that gives 100 MR or something, i'm just sick of the fact that every single game i play as a tank, i get a FoN and Banshee's. I want more options than just those 2


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