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Looking for CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on jungle Xin Guide!

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Seimitsu

Senior Member

08-03-2011

I spent the last week or two preparing this guide for Mobafire. Its gotten a little bit of attention, but so far no real feedback. I'm hoping to get a few comments/suggestions so I can tweak and fix things. Thanks for reading!

guide (http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/updated-complete-xin-zhao-jungle-guide-in-depth-104132)

Edit: Most of the information on the first two pages is no longer relevant as the guide has been changed based on feedback/testing.


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Carados

Senior Member

08-03-2011

Well, you're doing the ******ed rush Black Cleaver build, so there's that. You're also leveling his best skill last.


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Seimitsu

Senior Member

08-03-2011

I've never had any issue with getting the Black Cleaver first, it has never set me back in a game. As far as the skilling order goes, that's up for debate. Picking up a mallet or trinity force, as well as having red buff, makes up for the 20% slow you're missing out on. You only lose about 4 seconds on the cooldown and that's remedied by the active on the W.


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Carados

Senior Member

08-03-2011

Black Cleaver makes no sense given his role, abilities, or what he needs from items.

You're also leveling Q first, which is inexcusable.

I thought people should know how to play the champion before posting guides of them?


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Seimitsu

Senior Member

08-03-2011

How do you justify that it makes no sense? Attack speed, armor penetration, and flat damage are ALL things that Xin benefits from especially given his abilities and role. More importantly the skilling order is a suggestion. I'd be willing to bet you looked over the pictures at the top and then came here with "criticism". If you aren't going to bother to read the details, then don't bother posting about it.


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Zauper

Member

08-03-2011

Quote:
Seimitsu:
How do you justify that it makes no sense? Attack speed, armor penetration, and flat damage are ALL things that Xin benefits from especially given his abilities and role. More importantly the skilling order is a suggestion. I'd be willing to bet you looked over the pictures at the top and then came here with "criticism". If you aren't going to bother to read the details, then don't bother posting about it.


The issue is that you are telling (or "suggesting&quot via your guide that people do it wrong. Skilling up Q adds 15 damage per swing, x 3 swings, mitigated by armor. Skilling up e reduces the cooldown (and crazily enough, W still reduces it further) and increases the damage/slow on E. To clarify: skilling Q adds 45 single target physical damage, if you get all 3 hits off. Skilling E adds 40 AOE magic damage, reduces the cooldown, and raises the slow.

Levelling E first substantially improves your gank as a result. (You still start q/w, but after that E above them)

As far as rushing TBC is concerned.. there are lots of reasons why it's a bad idea. It might be (less) of a bad idea in lane, but in the jungle, you're starting WL, which is 1600, then boots which is 350, then you're buying 7 potions, which is ~250. You're at 2200 gold spent, and now you're going to rush your TBC. Solo laners should be making money at a equal/superior rate (as should the laner being fed CS bot). You don't get your BFS (which is the damage component) until 3800 gold -- now the laners have boots + IE, boots + deathcap...and you have no (bonus) MR, minimal armor (runes), and weaker damage. When you complete your TBC, you'll be at 5200 gold spent, and only have boots 1 -- while most opponents will be in boots 2. Makes it hard to gank.

Then there's the simple fact that you'd just be better off building a ghostblade which is cheaper, provides flat armor pen (which means more on the initial hits), and a MS/AS active.

For that matter, looking at your play screenshot, and your item recommendations generally, it looks like you play Xin as a glass cannon.

That's bad.


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Seimitsu

Senior Member

08-03-2011

Well I've taken the skilling order and made a change as that seems to be a general consensus, so I appreciate the feedback in that respect. As far as the "glass cannon" comment goes you couldn't be farther from the truth. Between Wriggle's and Merc Tread's I'm sitting at roughly 125/78 respectively. Based on the enemy team its not unheard of for me to have an early FoN, BV, Atma's etc.. That's the point of the situational items build. Had you read the section detailing the items, you would see the part where I bothered to write out "don't build Xin as a glass cannon". I'll give the "rush Youmuu's" idea a shot, I've honestly never picked it up that early. Once again, I posted this for the purpose of criticism, I never claimed to be the best Xin player. Cool it on the "your build is ******ed" ****, it doesn't really count as constructive.


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AnarkhiaQC

Recruiter

08-03-2011

nice guide so far, similar to my old build. But after trying a lot of build, seriously the best build for him is ghostblade + SotD then all tanky with the 2 active ull end 80 Armor pen 110% Ias, immune to dodge and damage proc based on attack speed( every 4 hit) for 4000 Gold. Better than bclever+phantom.

Actually if u analyse for all the gold u spent phantom+bclever+wriggle. You can have starks+ghostblade+sotd. You will have more damage with the 101 Armor pen and 60%+50%+50% increase attack speed...(also 20% movespeed instead of 15% from phantom) And you bring an aura to the team ( take note it might slowdown ur jungle a bit but not that much.) (( if u start at golems u can start with a life leach scepter instead of armor))

Maybe active item is not for you but ghostblade is most op item ever. all ad should take it, specially if they are melee, take time to look at what the item does for the price it cost... totally op


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Seimitsu

Senior Member

08-03-2011

Thank you for being polite in your feedback it looks like I will have to give Ghostblade a shot as first item after Wriggle's. I do like the idea of Stark's as well and I'm not sure how I forgot to include it under my items section. The one thing I'm a little skeptical of is SotD. I've toyed around with it before, but the practicality seemed to be limited to champions like Jax, Nasus, and Sivir. I'll try it out though and see what happens. Thanks again.


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Zauper

Member

08-03-2011

Quote:
Seimitsu:
Well I've taken the skilling order and made a change as that seems to be a general consensus, so I appreciate the feedback in that respect. As far as the "glass cannon" comment goes you couldn't be farther from the truth. Between Wriggle's and Merc Tread's I'm sitting at roughly 125/78 respectively. Based on the enemy team its not unheard of for me to have an early FoN, BV, Atma's etc.. That's the point of the situational items build. Had you read the section detailing the items, you would see the part where I bothered to write out "don't build Xin as a glass cannon". I'll give the "rush Youmuu's" idea a shot, I've honestly never picked it up that early. Once again, I posted this for the purpose of criticism, I never claimed to be the best Xin player. Cool it on the "your build is ******ed" ****, it doesn't really count as constructive.


Off the top of my head, wriggles is 30 armor and MT is 25 mr.

That's 55 MR (but you'll notice I was being very explicit about the timing -- this was BEFORE you had merc treads, because you don't buy your boots 2 until after you have wriggles + boots 1 + TBC). You have 14 armor from runes, 30 from wriggles, and 16.2 base. That's 60 armor. If you're level 10, 97 armor. Way short of the numbers you're claiming. You'll also notice I was ignoring base stats and looking at what the items you were suggesting have.

You'll also notice I looked at your sceenshot, and recommended items when commenting (TBC, merc treads, WL, PD). You might say to not build him as a glass cannon, but the itemization you suggest makes him that way. I've found most of my games end between 9,000 and 10,000 gold. WL + MT + TBC is 5800. Add PD and you're at 8600. Doesn't leave you much (or any) room to buy any real defensive items.

The other option (as compared to ghostblade) is to build items like hexdrinker/wits end that provide good DPS boosts and decent defense.

Also, I wouldn't build atmas unless I had a warmogs first.


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