Why Not to Build Trinity Force on Lee Sin

12345 ... 9
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RaskolnikovsAxe

Senior Member

08-01-2011

Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Tiamats

Trinity force is an item almost universally recommended for Lee Sin. In my opinion, however, it's a highly overrated item and doesn't deserve a place in his core build. In fact, I would argue that building two Tiamats is a better investment of gold. That's right, Tiamats and I have the math to back it up. Here's why:

(EDIT 1: I am not advocating replacing an Atmog's build with Tiamats. I'm actually suggesting that you supplement it with Tiamats. Tiamats will give you strong early game damage and good farm leading to more kills and gold and, in turn, a faster Warmog's and Atma's. Tiamats also makes you charge up Atmog's much, much faster. Sell the Tiamats late game when you start finishing your build.)

The most common argument against building a Trinity Force is that you're paying for mana and AP in the Sheen . Being manaless, Lee Sin makes no use of the mana and very little use of the AP which makes his shield block 24 more damage. Wahoo.

While that's a common argument, it's not the best argument since most people buy Trinity Force/Sheen on Lee Sin for the Sheen proc alone. And it is a nice ability, true, but what most people do not understand is that it only adds 100% (150% of Trinity Force) of your base damage, not total damage or bonus damage. It also adds it to your autoattack, which shifts the emphasis of Lee Sin's damage from spells (Resonating Strike, Tempest, Dragon's Rage) to autoattacks. To maximise the effect of sheen, you must stand next to your target casting spells consecutively every 2 seconds. The is completely unrealistic on the face of it and lies directly counter to Lee Sin's kit which is built around mobility and yo-yoing in and out of a fight.

***Warning, mathcraft ahead, skip to Conclusions if you want the analysis***

Let's take an ideal damage burst from a level 18 Lee Sin with a Trinity Force (4070gp) and two Tiamats (4140gp). This assumes two full two autoattacks between each spell cast.

Code:
___________________________________________________________________
Sonic Wave
                    Spell + Attacks + Sheen = Total
Trinity Force: 200 + 143*2 + 113*1.5 = 685.5
Tiamats:        270  + 213*2+       0      = 696

Resonating Strike after the the above damage
                     Spell + Bonus   +  Attacks+ Sheen  = Total
Trinity Force: 200 + 685.5*0.1 + 143*2 + 113*1.5 = 724.05
Tiamats:        270 + 696*0.1    + 213*2 +     0       = 765.5

Tempest
                    Spell + Attacks + Sheen = Total
Trinity Force: 230 +  143*2 + 113*1.5 = 685.5
Tiamats:        300 +  213*2 +      0       = 765.5

Dragon's Rage
                    Spell + Attacks + Sheen = Total
Trinity Force: 660 +  143*2 + 113*1.5 = 1115.5
Tiamats:        800 +   213*2 +      0      = 1226

Total with 2 Autoattacks after each spell
               Spell + Bonus  +  Attack + Sheen Proc + Crit@ = Total
Trinity Force: 1290 + 685.5*0.1 + 143*8 + (113*1.5)*4 + 143*1.2 = 3209.55 on average, 3180.55 if one crit, 3323.55 if two
Tiamats:       1640 + 696*0.1   + 213*8 +      0      +  0  = 3413.6
___________________________________________________________________
@8 autoattacks times a 15% crit chance yields an average of 1.2 crits during this burst.
The above data show that in an ideal situation, a Lee Sin with two Tiamats deals 204 more damage in a burst than one with a Trinity Force. But this may not be the best comparison since we know that it's nearly impossible to manage your spells that carefully in a fight so let's look at what happens if you only get one autoattack off after each spell.

Code:
___________________________________________________________________
Total with 1 Autoattack after each spell
               Spell + Bonus  +  Attack + Sheen Proc + Crit@ = Total
Trinity Force: 1290 + 542.5*0.1 + 143*4 + (113*1.5)*4 + 143*0.6 = 2680.05 on average, 2737.25 if one crit, 2594.25 if no crits
Tiamats:       1640 + 483*0.1   + 213*4 +      0      +  0  = 2540.3
___________________________________________________________________
@4 autoattacks times a 15% crit chance yields an average of 0.6 crits during this burst.
Here you see that Trinity Force beats out two Tiamats by 140 damage. owever, it is unlikely that you would get exactly one autoattack off for each spell (for example, you're probably not going to use the Sheen Proc from Sonic Wave because it's rarely used while within melee range of its target). To proc the Sheen effect for all four spells, you'd need to wait 2 seconds between each cast, stretching the combo out to a full 8 seconds. This is highly unrealistic. Since you're almost certain to miss at least one Sheen proc (which represents 169.5 damage, more than the difference between the two) it's doubtful that in an actual match a Lee Sin with Trinity Force would outdamage a dual Tiamat Lee Sin at all. To complete the analysis, here's the base damage from abilities alone with no autoattacks.

Code:
___________________________________________________________________
Total with 0 Autoattacks after each spell
               Spell + Bonus  +  Attack + Sheen Proc + Crit = Total
Trinity Force: 1290 + 230*0.1 + 143*0 + (113*1.5)*0 +  0  = 1313
Tiamats:       1640 + 270*0.1 + 213*0 +      0      +  0  = 1667
___________________________________________________________________
Unsurprisingly the data show that Tiamats win by a significant margin of 354 damage from their higher bonus AD.

Conclusions

In a highly idealized situation, Trinity Force does slightly more damage than two Tiamats when you are getting off between 1 and 6 attacks on the enemy during the course of your combo; double Tiamats does more damage when you autoattack 0 or more than 6 times. This assumes that you are able to land every sheen proc and are timing all your spellcasts 2 seconds or more apart to activate the proc. Quite simply, this does not happen in a real match. Realistically we know that a 4 spell combo lasts far shorter than 8 seconds or even 4, meaning that you are unlikely to get even 2 sheen procs out of Trinity Force, significantly reducing your damage output from the theoretical ideal.

And even if you do somehow manage to hit every sheen proc, Tiamats still deal more damage if you make more than 7 autoattacks during the course of your burst and with each additional attack after that, the gap widens steadily. Two Tiamats also does superior damage during harassment and the poking before a teamfight because of their higher bonus AD. All of this does not include the increased damage to multiple targets due to Tiamat's splash effect, bonus damage to Tempest hitting more than one target, and the bonus damage from Lee Sin's ult colliding with one or more champions other than the target.

There is room for argument that the other, non-damage effects of Trinity Force give it greater utility than two Tiamats. The increased move speed and attack speed from Zeal for example or the slow effect from Phage (which is redundant with Cripple and the red buff, both of which you should be using in a fight anyways). Both of these give effects that encourage playing a Lee Sin that focuses on autoattacking rather than a better suited role as a tanky AD caster and, as above, we see that a double Tiamat Lee Sin that focuses on autoattacking deals more damage than a Trinity Force Lee Sin anyways.

Tiamats r 4 n00bz HURR HURR

Some of you may counter with "Yeah, but you're wasting gold buying Tiamats by paying for mana regen that you won't even use!" That is true, it's gold you spend without getting any benefit from it. However, even without the mana regen stat, Tiamat is still the cheapest source of the stats it gives you.

A Tiamat which gives you 15 hp5, 50AD, 5mp5, and the passive splash effect for only 2070gp. The cost of a B.F. Sword plus the Regrowth Pendant is 2085gp. Even without the mana regen, you are still getting 5 more attack damage and the splash effect by building Tiamat that you would by building the stats items straight.

tl;dr

Two Tiamats give Lee Sin more utility and more damage than Trinity Force throughout a match as well as filling in the gaps in his kit by making him a strong farmer capable of split pushing with health regen to boot. It is idiot-proof and realistic and does not require a careful timing of abilities every 2 seconds to maximise your damage. A Blind Monk with Tiamats farms faster than a Blind Monk with a Trinity Force, charging up Warmog's faster, earning more gold, and keeping him one step ahead of the enemy team when it comes to items.

So please, stop rushing Trinity Force on Lee Sin. Every time I see it, it makes me die a little inside knowing that so few people realize how many better options there are for such a great champ.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

EDIT 1: I am not advocating building Tiamats as an item you carry with you into the late game or as an alternative to Atmog's. The goal of building Tiamats is to fill in the gap in Lee Sin's build when it comes to farming. He is one of the weaker farmers in the game and Tiamats reverse that, turning him into a pro at clearing waves. They are a good early game item that are best sold in the late game when you start finishing your build. You use the Tiamats to farm faster, building Atmog's faster and charging it up faster.

As I said in my conclusions section the attack speed from zeal and the phage proc both encourage autoattacking, something Lee Sin is not meant to rely on so heavily. You already have a slow from Tempest/Cripple and he already has a great chasing ability with his Q. Besides, if you're not nearly killing your target with your burst to begin with you're picking the wrong targets or you're doing it wrong. The only stat from Trinity Force which is ideal on Lee Sin is the movespeed bonus which is a worthy advantage from building Trinity Force.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Borkcire

Senior Member

08-01-2011

I'm sorry to tell you but I think most of us figured that out a while ago.

Not being sassy, I'm just saying.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Snike

Senior Member

08-01-2011

Tiamats...i lol'd. Dat mana regen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

General Waffles

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-01-2011

trinity force does more than just damage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

rayvah

Senior Member

08-01-2011

or you could just go atmogs not to get blown up?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lúst

Senior Member

08-01-2011

IE into a BloodThirster is the way to go on Lee Sin.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DarkDude666

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-01-2011

I still like the Move Speed


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pigoil

Senior Member

08-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by L?st View Post
IE into a BloodThirster is the way to go on Lee Sin.
did not know u can upgrade this way


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kersh

Senior Member

08-01-2011

Gunblade is funner for not going tanky.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CeilinglessYasir

Senior Member

08-01-2011

the definition of tl dr


12345 ... 9