[Guide] My Crit is Over 9000: Ashe

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Shirokuma

The Council

09-09-2009

Swap out your +mana for clarities (+mana regeneration/lvl). If you're going with Infinity Edge, you want your Marks to be 100% Furor. Quints are whatever you feel between Furor, +HP, and Movespeed, Seals are a tossup between Furor, Evasion, Magic Resistance and +HP/Lvl. Glyphs should Always be clarities on Ashe. No exceptions.


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h4rdcor3

Senior Member

09-09-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirokuma View Post
Swap out your +mana for clarities (+mana regeneration/lvl). If you're going with Infinity Edge, you want your Marks to be 100% Furor. Quints are whatever you feel between Furor, +HP, and Movespeed, Seals are a tossup between Furor, Evasion, Magic Resistance and +HP/Lvl. Glyphs should Always be clarities on Ashe. No exceptions.
Your right. Thank you for pointing that out. Makes much more sense to have the regen then a base of more mana.


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Mad Rar

Junior Member

09-09-2009

Though the extra gold is irrefutably helpful (more gold, more items etc) at an initial glance, the math for plentiful bounty needs also be weighed against the utility of ashe early on. In an average 40 to 50 minute game, the most creeps I've personally killed, or seen anyone kill is around the mid 200's. Even if this was done on Ashe, with all of these kills being with maxed plentiful bounty (which is highly unlikely, as I usually net my first 40 or so creep kills in the early levels, where it's presence is negligible) the 'extra' gold amounts to the whopping sum of 1200.

I'll grant that 1200 gold is something, but on Ashe, where individual items typically cost +1k for just parts of recipes, it's nearing negligibility. Now, in a pub game, where Ashe players typically solo and sit behind a lane of creeps for an entire match, yes, this is something worth looking into. But at the higher levels of the game, where it's not about being a one man army, the 'team' utility of frost shot can't be ignored. A gank on another player, whether Ashe deals the killing blow or not, is a gain of experience, and more importantly, a loss of experience for the other team.

What Veritas has presented here is an Ashe who is still a 'carry' but has the utility and survivability to give her team an edge. The classic Ashe model depends a lot on the team backing her up--can they take the hits, disable the competition, force retreats--well enough that she can do the damage. What Veritas's build allows is Ashe herself to pick up the team dynamic a little bit, creating a steady cannon rather than a glass one.

Finally, concerning +gold items in general, the math here is a bit iffy as well. It takes about 12 minutes for the item to pay for itself (philo stone, avarice blade etc). Try starting Ashe out with the mana stone, and nabbing a couple of hp pots, and suddenly your Volley has plenty of uses, and you're on the way to the hp / mp component of the banshee's veil, which also keeps you sitting in a lane longer because you get hp / mp back every level. More lane time is more gold, more gold is better items, better items means Ashe cannon achieved, and all without the gimmicky +gold abilities so popular because they 'sound' good in the description.


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Shirokuma

The Council

09-10-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Rar View Post
I'll grant that 1200 gold is something, but on Ashe, where individual items typically cost +1k for just parts of recipes, it's nearing negligibility. Now, in a pub game, where Ashe players typically solo and sit behind a lane of creeps for an entire match, yes, this is something worth looking into. But at the higher levels of the game, where it's not about being a one man army, the 'team' utility of frost shot can't be ignored. A gank on another player, whether Ashe deals the killing blow or not, is a gain of experience, and more importantly, a loss of experience for the other team.
Not to nitpick, but until its fixed, during higher level play it has become etiquette to disconnect yourself while dead. Your team gets a boost of exp as if it was a 4v5, and you can reconnect yourself just before you revive in order to make sure that none of the exp is wasted while you're dead. Pretty lame at the moment, but yes, your point still stands that the dead player gets underleveled. The whole point of Plentiful Bounty, for me, is helping me get as much gold as possible to pick up my first BF Sword asap. It helps wonders with lasthitting.


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Turtle

Junior Member

09-13-2009

when exactly do you buy your bf sword shiro?

like whats the exact item build you do?


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TenToedPete1

Adjudicator

09-13-2009

the original item build here of boots of swiftness and banshee's veil really does limit ashe's carry capacity. Thats not to say it doesnt work, and im sure in a high end game with good allies ashe will be able to farm up some damage that with the added survivability makes her a lot stronger, but ive seen several players try this build in pub games (possibly after reading this guide). Not to bash pub players (i myself am 95% pub player), but generally they are less skilled. Several ashes ive played with have gone straight veil, then been completly useless for their team with piss poor damage, and the game already 15-20 mins in.


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Turtle

Junior Member

09-13-2009

what do you suggest i use then? i've only played ashe a few games... trying to find a good build


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Shirokuma

The Council

09-14-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenToedPete View Post
the original item build here of boots of swiftness and banshee's veil really does limit ashe's carry capacity. Thats not to say it doesnt work, and im sure in a high end game with good allies ashe will be able to farm up some damage that with the added survivability makes her a lot stronger, but ive seen several players try this build in pub games (possibly after reading this guide). Not to bash pub players (i myself am 95% pub player), but generally they are less skilled. Several ashes ive played with have gone straight veil, then been completly useless for their team with piss poor damage, and the game already 15-20 mins in.
This is the same issue that I have with the guide. Going 21/0/9 and grabbing a solo lane gives you extremely fast exp, and by the time you're level 13ish, you should have plenty of items built to curbstomp the opposition into oblivion. My general item build is Boots +2-3 health pots, farm as much as I can, and get a BF sword as my first real item. Depending on how much gold you have left after that, I'll upgrade my boots (Swiftness if you're playing against good players, Berserkers for a pubstomp.) Your next two steps are to finish the Cleaver and to start up on your Phage, in no particular order. After the Phage and Cleaver are done, I'll usually grab a Banshee's Veil, and then start working on my Infinity Edge. If the game lasts longer than that, work on a 6th item. I can't really recommend one, however, as it's always situational. Your options are pretty much Bloodthirster for pubstomps, Phantom Dancer for the movespeed and crit chance, Last Whisper if they're stacking armor, Atma's Impaler if you need the +armor, or Stark's if your entire team refuses to get it and you're stuck with it. If, somehow, the game STILL HASN'T ENDED, upgrade your Phage.

Also, off topic, but I set my runes/masteries to get ready to play as Anivia, but the client didn't pop up when it found a game, so I ended up getting stuck with a random hero. Had to work with Spell Penetration/AP runes and a 9/0/21 build as Pirate...

I somehow ended the game at 13-1-14. I was so confused.


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Pesmerk

Junior Member

09-15-2009

I just played against Veritas but I don't remember if I got my ass beat or won. I play Ashe 100% of the time and I disagree with getting Frost Shot first. Volley is the center of her game. I don't want to post my config because I'm greedy.


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Qusteka

Junior Member

09-16-2009

I disagree on Impaler, just played (successfully) with your Guide, thx to it we managed to win before i got my Cleaver... but i just calced what i would have on lvl 18 with mallet+veil+atmas (guessing it doesn't give bonus hp) it "only" gives 66 bonus damage, i wouldn't call it a ton it's way too expensive for just 4 dmg LESS than a Cleaver (even less if you put the armor reduction into the calculation to be exact with 5 stacks of armor reduction on an enemy hero = 60 you would deal +190 damage with a cleaver. Atma only gave you 34% of that. So to be exact, either you put your runebook COMPLETELY full with HP runes, or even a second Cleaver will add you more base damage. The bonus critical just is not worth it, so is the armor. REMEMBER those are Calcs for a 2k hp enemy! I myself only had 3.32k with 224.3 through runes.

To come to a conclusion, the MUCH wiser choice of your last item in my oppinion would be:
LAST WHISPER, those 40% of armor penetration are so really freaking uber deadly. Just imagine an enemy already being reduced by your Cleaver hits getting penetrated another 40% armor. The 20 damage are a neat bonus to that. To make it clear where i want to get to. A Rammus with his def stance active and at this gamestate probably about 300 armor would receive (with an approximate 4k hp) 240
bonus damage through Cleaver and another 116 bonus damage through your Last Whisper in this
Calculation, i didn't even mention the 40% bonus ATS which are just overwhelming. Even with an enemy
that only got 2k hp and 100 armor that still would be 52 bonus damage through your Last Whisper at
max. stacked Cleaver + the 40% ATS. I think I have absolutely proven, that Last Whisper is the better
choice to pick as last item for Ashe than Atmas Impaler. If you are worried about the Armor, you should
try to get hit as least as possible anyway and if you want to finally boost the game to win, i'd say
pwnage > survivability. Btw. the less Cleaver stacks you have on your enemy the more you'll benefit from your Last Whisper!

Suggested beginners item build:
-->Regen Talisman (17.25 hp per 5 or so)
-->Philosophers
-->Ninja Tabi (good if you seem to die often) < Berserkers Greaves
-->B.F. Sword
-->Endless stone for some survivability
-->Cleaver
-->Veil
-->Infinity Edge/Frozen Mallet(+800hp are nice, but i choose Edge over Mallet)
(btw. the slow is pretty useless for you, i agree it exponentially increases your slow, but you just don't need it, if you greed for HP rather get a real tank item than a mallet).
-->Last Whisper

Even though Lifesteal has been blamed to not be worth it, it's in your interest to motivate one support of your team to buy
Starks Fervor. Preferably Sivir. Gn8...