Armor Pen vs Crit Dmg: A Quantitative Analysis

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wildfire393

Senior Member

05-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystyk View Post
well nice thread bu it didnt give a answer to:

what comes first in armor/mrespen:
the % like last whisper/void
or the normal brutalizer/haunting guise/sorcboot/black cleave etc.
First is % Reduction (Bushwhack Only)
Then is flat Reduction (Abyssal Scepter, other -MR/AR abilities besides Bushwhack, Black Cleaver, Stark's Fervor)
Then is % Penetration (Void Staff, Archaic Mastery, Last Whisper)
Then is Flat Penetration (Runes, Sunder Mastery, Brutalizer/Ghostblade)

I've run the math before and posted in EnderA's thread, for a Guaranteed Critical, Armor Pen still does more damage for armor values between something like 12 and 108, which encompasses basically all non-tank armor at all levels (even assuming they'll consider Ninja Tabi). Additionally, if you stack other Armor Pen, % Armor Pen, or Crit Damage (Infinity Edge) items/runes/masteries, it makes Armor Pen Runes valuable to even higher values of armor. And this is all on an actual critical. If you go off of a % chance to Critical, the average break-even armor point goes up drastically - at 10% crit it's over 1000 armor before Crit Damage is better, and even with 30% it was something like 350.


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Canis

Senior Member

05-12-2010

ArP > Crit damage. Always has been.

Most people don't stack a large amount of crit unless you are designed to (see: gangplank), but even then the crit damage runes provide a very small amount of bonus from it. Armor pen is a great counter and makes EVERYTHING hit harder not just the roll of the dice crit. I play numerous champions and sometimes stack all our armor pen and can crush tanks to the point that they scream hax. (Brutalizer + Last whisper + armor pen reds = WIN)

100% chance to hit harder.
<100% chance to hit harder.

Your choice.


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Calexto

Junior Member

05-13-2010

If you play champs like GP or Poppy, you can justify builds that output 100% crit chance therefore 100% hits deal more damage, the issue however is that crits are actually bigger based on base damage which is modified by infinity edge, as it is the core of these builds.
These builds will one shot enemies not obtaining ridiculous amounts of armor or health.
(just a side note, anyone else notice that poppy crits with her devastating blow, it deals the extra damage, but doesn't display crit text?)

Penetration will out shine crit damage in pretty much every other case unless your getting hella lucky.

I like my crit damage page, because with it, plus offensive masteries i actually have more than 50% bonus crit damage at lvl 1. It induces a massive amount of laughter when those rare games happen as GP and you 2 shot enemies at lvl 1. (they do happen)


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OJ Da Juiceman

Senior Member

05-31-2010

i take crit chance over armor pen. Once you get IE ( required in every build that matters) your crit chance is about (38 % + any health missing) which will give you enough crit to carry through the rest of the game. Then you can load up on atck speed, and damage to get max damage output ( emphasis on damage). The problem with armor pen is it gets less effective the more armor the enemy has, and it doesnt trigger your BL and SS. (SS CD reduce matters when chasing) No brainer for me.

Crit damage is useless except on shaco, Im with you there


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1337SuperNewb

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Recruiter

05-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlox View Post
Spreadsheet I made on crit chance vs AP runes (assuming only quints and reds are used):

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...MeUc2eWc&hl=en

Let me know if you see any mistakes. Basically it says that if you keep the enemy between 20 and 60 armor AP is better... otherwise go crit.
This would be the case, if it weren't for the fact that armor pen works well with Last Whisper due to how armor pen is dealt with (% before flat) and that you can modify how much armor pen you have with brutalizer/ghostblade + LW in order to make sure the enemy is always in the "optimal" spot.


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RubberOwen

Member

06-09-2010

so if you are trynd should you get crit damage. because you can easily buy armor pen from the store but there is only one item that supplies you with increased crit damage.


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Carados

Senior Member

06-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberOwen View Post
so if you are trynd should you get crit damage. because you can easily buy armor pen from the store but there is only one item that supplies you with increased crit damage.
Stop spamming this bull**** everywhere.

You do realize that ARMOR PENETRATION STACKS, right?


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RubberOwen

Member

06-09-2010

yea i realize that but what if your up against a team that doesnt buy a ton of armor.


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Carados

Senior Member

06-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberOwen View Post
yea i realize that but what if your up against a team that doesnt buy a ton of armor.
Characters have base armor. Most characters start with less armor then you get armor pen from runes and hit about 70 at 18. This is ignoring Aegis of the Legion.

If you can show me how to get 70 numeric armor penetration, go ahead.


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baby giraffi

Junior Member

06-09-2010

attack someone with a black clever 5 times (stacks 5 times) and you have 60 armor penitration just in that one item.+25 from runes+ brute+ whisperer= 100+