Mid-game Poppy

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Cakevon

Senior Member

07-20-2011

I've been playing League for a couple months now, on my final stretch to 30. I also practice less familiar champs on a second account that belongs to my seldom playing dad.

With the IP on the second acct, I bought Poppy. I fell in love, per se. But I know that she's an easy champion to play; hard champion to master. I've got her on my main now and feel okay enough to play at higher level games. But I'm here for some help.

Early game, I do all right and hardly feed. Last hitting is not a huge difficulty to me (though of course I can improve). I usually get my Sheen and boots at a good rate, but around mid-game, I start to peter off. My ganking becomes really difficult for some reason, and I feel quite useless. If the game ends at around mid-game/early late game, my score is mostly meh, and my CS is okay. It's by no means 0/7/0 but I feel that my gank strategy could be much better.

Now if the game goes off to late, I usually am able to push back waves quite quickly and am able to afford my full set most games.

Now any ideas as to what my problem is around mid-game? I feel I may not be ballsy enough to make the dive, or to get to the other lane. I always feel pressure to push my lane, and by the time I go back and buy after the push, my lane needs help again.

As a side-note, I'm currently running AD Poppy. I much prefer it over the AP for some reason.

Cake


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Ellye

Senior Member

07-20-2011

By mid game, I suppose you have at least a Sheen and a Sorcerer's Shoes, and is starting to build the rest of your Trinity Force (or some tank item if you feel the need).

Without seeing how you actually play, my blind suggestion is: Do get "ballsier". Poppy is an assassin, you should be scanning the enemy team for potential targets and vaporizing them. You'll put yourself in risk situations, that's part of the experience. While playing assassins, you'll often go through the route of "high risk, high reward". And you will thank the gods for Poppy's passive many, many times, when you retreat from a bad situation with about 20 hp left.

Poppy burst damage with the proper items (Sheen-based item and Sorcerer's Shoes) and runes (magic penetration) is strong enough to vaporize squishies extremely quick - don't be afraid to tower dive if you feel like you can come back in one piece.

As for your build, I believe "AD" Poppy doesn't really need much AD. Just grab yourself a Trinity Force and then you're free to get at least a few tanky items, which should make it even safer for you to jump into an enemy team, vaporize their carry and come out alive (Trinity Force alone should provide more than enough offense for that job midgame and sometimes even lategame).

Also, remember that even if you're building AD, Poppy primary damage source against champions is magical damage. Use Magic Penetration runes and masteries, and get Sorcerer's Shoes.


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Cakevon

Senior Member

07-20-2011

thanks for the item tips. usually after trinforce, if they're stacking armor, i get LBane. If they're stacking MR, i get PD and build a Cleaver.

Any other suggestions for AP choices if the enemy starts stacking amor?

As for the mid-game ganks, I think I just need to be a little ballsier and risk it for the kill. I've done some kills for sure that come out great, but when I faildive, I get discouraged and end up playing safe.


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Ellye

Senior Member

07-20-2011

Don't build both a Trinity Force and a Lich Bane, the Sheen-like effects do not stack.
Basically, AD/Tanky Poppy gets Trinity Force and AP Poppy gets Lich Bane.

If they are stacking armor, that's great for you - no matter what you build with Poppy, her main damage will be Magic Damage (her E->Q combo deals only magic damage). It's a common misconception that her Q cause some physical damage plus an extra magic damage, but it actually causes 100% magic damage (her attack damage, plus any modifiers to it, is converted to magic damage).

Therefore, you should always have some Magic Penetration (Runes + Sorc Shoes should be enough most of the time for AD Poppy).


Also, personally, I can't play Poppy without Flash. It helps a lot in your positioning to set up a stun with your E.
But then again, I can't play anything without Flash, so I'm biased.


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Lizto

Senior Member

07-20-2011

The cause could be many different things. In my case, I played poppy when I first started, I liked her, built her like an AD carry (its actually a good build, people just didnt know back then) but soon after I bought my first champion (tristana). After a few weeks maybe months of playing I decided I wanted to play poppy again, and at the time I knew better, so I decided to check out some guides, turns out people built her AP, so I started playing her as such, but there was a general problem, and this may be one of the causes that make you have a bad mid game. I felt like I had to land my E against a wall to effectively take people down, so whenever I tried looking for an opportunity...well...the opportunities didnt come very often (I would only E when it was pretty much certain, that I had no doubt...something that didnt happen very often)

Shifting forward in time once more, I started playing poppy, I had the same problem, until I started telling myself, one ult, one kill. What I meant by that is that EVERY single time my ult was off cooldown, I would look for someone to kill, I would simply find someone ult, charge, and start bashing at them. That is how people play poppy, upon getting your ult, start killing every single time your ult is ready, you may not always succeed, but eventually, youll learn what are the scenerios that you can get a kill. Be fearless, thats what a good poppy is, completely fearless.


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HungryKarnage

Member

07-20-2011

I'm going to disagree with some of the replies here and state that for AD Poppy, you should:

1. Not get Sorc boots, but just standard Zerker or Mecury boots (for heavy CC teams)
2. Almost don't build tanky at all.
3. Trinity + IE is crazy strong burst. You will still easily kill Ashe or Akali with just these 2 items in less than 4 seconds.

Why not sorc boots?

Simply because you will not be getting a Void Staff most times as AD Poppy. Sorc boots penetrate 20 points of MR, and is only really good in the early stages of the game. Once anyone gets a Merc threads, they negate that pentration already. Also, most squishy carries (AP or AD) like to get BV as a standard durability item, and that will really make the bonus you get from Sorc boots almost worthless. Sorc boots + Void Staff is decent as the % penetration is calculated before the flat penetration.

Why not tanky?

Her passive and her W skill. If you start stacking HP on Poppy, you actually reduce the time when your passive starts to kick in. You want to abuse it as soon as you can in a team fight. When you stack HP, since that extra HP doesn't benefit from the passive, the extra durablity you get is actually moot. W adds a decent chink of armor (+35 at max rank) that already works well with her passive. In my Poppy games, I have great success just running a QSS to negate that clutch CC and nothing else. I still don't feed or die too easily. I will talk a bit more about my playstyle. That may give you a clue.

I run a very glass cannon build on Poppy. TF, IE, GhostBlade, Boots (of either Zerker or Merc), Shurelya's and a QSS. Sometimes I swap out Shurelya's for a LW if I have no difficulty chasing down my targets, or if they start stacking a lot of armor. I typically get an early Philosopher and Avarice into Sheen to help with farming (Poppy does have relatively weak farming abilites). Then I get a TF into an IE.

The big difference between AP and AD Poppy is in utility. For an AP Poppy to do that glorious One-Shot kill, they typically need to synergize their combo with their ulti for that added damage. This means that AP Poppy kills one enemy champ almost immediately in a teamfight, kites her way out, comes back in to pick off stragglers or weakened champs. AD Poppy has more options. My typical one is to actually Ulti some very low dps champ with at most one CC (preferably none) like a support, and then go kill their carry. If you have Ghostblade + IE + TF, any Ashe/MF/Cait/Akali/etc. will melt away even without the added bonus from your ulti. And since it last 8 seconds, this typically lets you go and seriously wound a 2nd champ before your shield drops.

Also considering looping around the sides for team engagements. When you come in from the front during a teamfight, the whole enemy team will note you and try their hardest to cut you off, or burst you down once your shield drops. However, if you take that extra bit of time to loop around and appear where the support and carry is clumped together at the back after their team has surged forward, you can typically pick up 2 easy kills before the enemy team realizes what has happened.


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Cakevon

Senior Member

07-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryKarnage View Post
I'm going to disagree with some of the replies here and state that for AD Poppy, you should:

1. Not get Sorc boots, but just standard Zerker or Mecury boots (for heavy CC teams)
2. Almost don't build tanky at all.
3. Trinity + IE is crazy strong burst. You will still easily kill Ashe or Akali with just these 2 items in less than 4 seconds.

Why not sorc boots?

Simply because you will not be getting a Void Staff most times as AD Poppy. Sorc boots penetrate 20 points of MR, and is only really good in the early stages of the game. Once anyone gets a Merc threads, they negate that pentration already. Also, most squishy carries (AP or AD) like to get BV as a standard durability item, and that will really make the bonus you get from Sorc boots almost worthless. Sorc boots + Void Staff is decent as the % penetration is calculated before the flat penetration.

Why not tanky?

Her passive and her W skill. If you start stacking HP on Poppy, you actually reduce the time when your passive starts to kick in. You want to abuse it as soon as you can in a team fight. When you stack HP, since that extra HP doesn't benefit from the passive, the extra durablity you get is actually moot. W adds a decent chink of armor (+35 at max rank) that already works well with her passive. In my Poppy games, I have great success just running a QSS to negate that clutch CC and nothing else. I still don't feed or die too easily. I will talk a bit more about my playstyle. That may give you a clue.

I run a very glass cannon build on Poppy. TF, IE, GhostBlade, Boots (of either Zerker or Merc), Shurelya's and a QSS. Sometimes I swap out Shurelya's for a LW if I have no difficulty chasing down my targets, or if they start stacking a lot of armor. I typically get an early Philosopher and Avarice into Sheen to help with farming (Poppy does have relatively weak farming abilites). Then I get a TF into an IE.

The big difference between AP and AD Poppy is in utility. For an AP Poppy to do that glorious One-Shot kill, they typically need to synergize their combo with their ulti for that added damage. This means that AP Poppy kills one enemy champ almost immediately in a teamfight, kites her way out, comes back in to pick off stragglers or weakened champs. AD Poppy has more options. My typical one is to actually Ulti some very low dps champ with at most one CC (preferably none) like a support, and then go kill their carry. If you have Ghostblade + IE + TF, any Ashe/MF/Cait/Akali/etc. will melt away even without the added bonus from your ulti. And since it last 8 seconds, this typically lets you go and seriously wound a 2nd champ before your shield drops.

Also considering looping around the sides for team engagements. When you come in from the front during a teamfight, the whole enemy team will note you and try their hardest to cut you off, or burst you down once your shield drops. However, if you take that extra bit of time to loop around and appear where the support and carry is clumped together at the back after their team has surged forward, you can typically pick up 2 easy kills before the enemy team realizes what has happened.
I have a question regarding your IE. With TF, Youmuu's, and IE, your crit rate is 55% (am i right?). That is decent for standard AD damage, but Q won't crit since it's magic damage. So in a fight, i assume you R (or E) and auto attack to proc TF with a hopeful crit. Then you wait for the CD on TF before Q'ing? Seems like the most efficient way to get off the damage you want.

Also, is it really true LB and TF don't stack? Considering they're unique passives are different and the two items are completely different, I assumed they would stack on one attack....

EDIT: @Lizto: thanks for that tip. I'll try that next game to practice my consistency with Poppy.


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HungryKarnage

Member

07-20-2011

Yes, LB and TF don't stack. Normally I don't try for any optimal damage output tricks. A W to close the distance, followed with a quick E & Q, then just auto-attacks. I find that if you hesitate in those cruical moments to get 'optimal' damage, you normally let the chance slip by. I still have little issue killing without doing optimal, so I suggest you do the same.

Of course, if you are great at Poppy like Doublelift is... go for it! I'm not that uber yet 8p.


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Narvuntien

Senior Member

07-20-2011

AP Poppy.

philo stone
Sheen
merc treads
Kages lucky pick
DFG
Lich bane
optional.... deathcap, gunblade, shurelia's revieve, viod staff, defence banchee's, zhonya's, abssyal sceptor Etc.

farming will always be tough... thats why you have philo and kages
Farm champions.


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FrostMjolnir

Senior Member

07-20-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakevon View Post
Imy score is mostly meh, and my CS is okay. It's by no means 0/7/0 but I feel that my gank strategy could be much better.

As a side-note, I'm currently running AD Poppy. I much prefer it over the AP for some reason.

Cake
Kinda weird, your CS is supposed to sux and your score great.

Poppy is an assassin, you need to be sneaky and fast. Forget a little about your CS, poppy is a horrible farmer... focus on oportunities, when a champ is next to the wall, mid lane is too pushed and your enemy is on the turret, dont be afraid of towerdive just check if you got ignite up and ghost/flash.

My AD build: (You ult the tank and focus the carries)

Triforce -> Boots -> Yoummus -> Bloodtrist or Gunblade -> Situational -> Situational

My AP build: (You ult the carry and blow him in 2 seconds)

DFG -> Boots -> Lichbane -> Rabadon -> Gunblade -> Situational

I really prefer AP build, because it makes the game most times a 5 vs 4.

Opportunities bro, opportunities!


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