Philosopher's Stone needs work.

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number1jungle

Senior Member

04-24-2010

Philosopher's Stone used to be a decent alternative early item.

But now no one with decent ELO would get it instead of the superior Doran's items or building Catalyst the Protector 1st.

Philo's stone needs a slight buff to make it viable again.


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vulpixel

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Senior Member

04-25-2010

Its not as good cause it gives gold, that's how 5/10 gold items work, right?


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

04-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by reposado View Post
Philosopher's Stone used to be a decent alternative early item.

But now no one with decent ELO would get it instead of the superior Doran's items or building Catalyst the Protector 1st.

Philo's stone needs a slight buff to make it viable again.
I always build it first on Singed. My early game suffers, but considering I start with the Regrowth and Singed can go through his mana FAST early on....
Upgrading the Regrowth to Philosopher's means I get the bonus mana regen it gives over Meiki, plus the gold.

If you assume that you are playing a character who takes a Regrowth to start and benefits from mana regen...

Regrowth costs you your starting 475.
Meiki is another 390 - but you needed to get *something* for your mana regen, so the cost is negligible.
You now have 14/5 health regen and 7/5 mana regen.
For another 250 gold, you get 8.5 health regen and 3/5 mana regen. Based on the first coss, that's 61% increase in hp regen and 43% increase in mana regen. Value-wise, that's 289 gold worth of hp regen and 168 gold worth of mana regen.

HOW is that item bad? If you care about the 2 stats other than gold that it gives, it is a *phenomenal* value.


Now, if you only care about mana regen, but go philosopher's stone anyways, you are spending 1015 gold, and getting 558 gold worth of mana regen. Which means it'll take the stone 914 seconds (15 minutes) to earn it's extra cost back (which is sub-optimal for sure). But you get the extra hp regen at the same time.

However, even for a character who doesn't use mana (let's go Mundo, as he enjoys the hp regen)...
You get 475 + 289 gold worth of hp regen - that's 764 gold of the 1015 gold value. Only 251 gold to "earn back", which takes a much shorter 502 seconds (8 minutes 22 seconds). After that time, it is pure profit, and if the game goes long, it sells for more than 0 too.


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Krosan

Senior Member

04-25-2010

It's not a bad regen item, but regen falls off lategame. I used to get it for Singed, but economically speaking, it's better to get the regrowth, then build catalyst (which gives, if you get it early enough, the mana you need to make it to RoA) and eventually build the regrowth into Warmog's Armor.

I think it gives about 4 HP/second. Which is nice, but not nice enough to justify it for the most part, since HP regen isn't worth much once laning phase ends.


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number1jungle

Senior Member

04-25-2010

[QUOTE=Viro Melchior;1126084]

HOW is that item bad? If you care about the 2 stats other than gold that it gives, it is a *phenomenal* value.

QUOTE]

Its not a bad item.

But there are simply *better* starting items.

Go see some tournament games and see how often folks pick up pho stones.

bottom line, For the majority of champs getting pho stone is for noobs.


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SavageMinnow

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Senior Member

04-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
I always build it first on Singed. My early game suffers, but considering I start with the Regrowth and Singed can go through his mana FAST early on....
Upgrading the Regrowth to Philosopher's means I get the bonus mana regen it gives over Meiki, plus the gold.
I main as singed, I've found that getting a heart of gold for the hp/armor has been more useful. If you're economical with your poison puffs and not wasting fling on minions, you don't even have mana trouble at all - but then again I use flat mana runes so that may be why.

I also don't use regrowth, favoring early HP potions and then simply ignoring hp regen mid/lategame.


On-point: I think maybe a small buff would be viable - perhaps even to the gold created. It makes sense that the stone should generate more money than the others... maybe 7 gold would make it more worth the money.


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Chingmeister

Senior Member

04-28-2010

As mid, I often get three doran's blades for 1300g. They add enough dmg/lifesteal to clear out a side minion group between waves for an extra 150g/minute + extra xp. 12% lifestealing at 100dps is 60hp/5. The effective regen is somewhere around 40 hp/5 since your only firing 2/3 of the time. The extra damage, health, lifestealing, and levels (xp from nuetrals) make you ungankable and close to unbeatable 1v1.

A philosopher's stone is outdated since it doesn't add as much gold or xp and doesn't make you ungankable. It also doesn't add much of anything to a 20 second team fight.


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cats

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Senior Member

05-01-2010

When I started playing early on when Philosophers was the only gold generating item I used to be like 5 of them (2009) for any character that uses lots of hp or mp and spells/skills with low cooldown.

Nowadays I almost never use them although I do use them for certain heroes. If they add a passive 4% xp gain it may be used again otherwise make another upgrade to philosophers. lvl 2 +10 gold per 5 and 30/5 hp regen+ 17.5/5 mp regen for 500g.

Maybe give us the ability to combine 3 philosophers stone to gain 20 g/5 secs +80 hp regen a sec + 35 mana regen a sec. +4% xp gain +5 gold from minion kills.


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RaginHomoSapien

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Recruiter

05-03-2010

<quote> "I like Tiamat! it seems like an attempt at the dota battle fury, but I suppose you are correct and a stronger version could be implemented, perhaps the stronger version would be :
Recipe : 400 gp
Tiamat plus philosophers stone = [ti'amtum](+60 damage, 40 health regen, 15 mana regen)

or
Recipe : 400 gp
Tiamat plus philosophers stone + longsword = [ti'amtum](+60 damage, 40 health regen, 15 mana regen)

[ti'amtum] working title for item, basically the older version of the name of the goddess, "tiamat's fury" or "tiamat's wrath" would also be very adequate!!! "</quote>
quoted from:
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=102965