Any way to stop a fed Annie's Tibbers?

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Yellow Jester

Senior Member

04-20-2010

banshee's is useless against a good player. She'd just cast her AoE to dispel it and do Tibbers up your face.


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MBirk

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Jester View Post
banshee's is useless against a good player. She'd just cast her AoE to dispel it and do Tibbers up your face.
Yeah, negating 500 damage outright and possibly a stun is totally useless...
Nevermind the 450 hp, and 57 MR.

Banshees+merc treads is 80mr alone. Not including base, aegis, chalice.


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TechYS

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Yeah, negating 500 damage outright and possibly a stun is totally useless...
Nevermind the 450 hp, and 57 MR.

Banshees+merc treads is 80mr alone. Not including base, aegis, chalice.
Problem with that is, you need a full premade or else some dps is gonna be mad at you for suggesting it and just get his/her dps items.

Also the fact that someone else on their team may have just popped your bubble. It doesn't have to be Annie (like a Sivir Boomerang toss).

Even if Annie did clear your bubble and pop Tibbers, remember that the clean up crew is behind her. She has a team, she's not trying a 1 vs 5. If she has max CD, after about 5 seconds later she's gonna pop another Incinerate.

If it was me though, I would Disintegrate the enemy main carry (if he's close enough, this pops his bubble), Incinerate (your team is now vulnerable), pop tibbers (aoe stun), and you can go for another Disintegrate again followed by another Incinerate as it finishes CD.

And if you guys are trying to focus her in a team fight, you get in her range so the combo can work.

And if you have Shen, Morgana, and Janna in your team, before going in with your combo, get Morgana and Janna to pu thteir shield on you. Pop Molten Shield and get the battle going. People wastes their CC on you if they try to gank you first. In mid of combo have Shen use his ult then taunt the enemy as you finish off the rest of your combo.


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NullValue

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Junior Member

04-20-2010

I was curious, so I wanted to check on the math for how much of a difference MR makes. I don't know the actual formulas though, but I based this off Armor vs Damage calculations to get a general idea.

Base: 30 MR
Merc Treads: 25 MR
Chalice: 30 MR
Veil: 57 MR
Aegis Aura: 15 MR
Aegis on Self: 24 MR + 15 MR = 39 MR

That's around 157 MR if you get the Aegis Aura with Chalice, Treads, and Veil, and 181 MR if you're the tank / support carrying the Aegis, also with Chalice, Treads, and Veil.

Is the damage calculation vs MR / Magic Penetration the same as for Armor / Armor Penetration?

IE:

Final Damage = Damage * (100 / 100 + MR - Magic Penetration) ?

If it is, then vs a caster with heavy Magic Penetration (15% Mastery, 40% from Void, +20 from Sorc Boots, and +20 from Guise), you'd be getting something like:

(100 / 100 + 157 - (157 * (0.15+0.40) + 20 + 20))
= (100 / 100 + 157 - (157 * (0.55) + 40))
= (100 / 100 + 157 - 126.35)
= (100 / 130.65)
= 0.77

So you'd still be taking only 77% of the damage with that MR vs the heavy Magic Penetration.

If the caster didn't have any Magic Penetration at all, then it'd be something like:

(100 / 100 + 157)
= (100 / 257)
= 0.39

So vs a caster that had no Magic Penetration at all, you'd take 39% damage instead.



Either way, it seems to me that stacking MR is still really beneficial vs an enemy caster since MR is basically percentage absorption of Magic Damage. The more damage they do, the more damage you would absorb. If they have Magic Penetration, it's not hard to stack more MR than their Magic Penetration, especially since everyone will generally get Boots, and a Veil by itself will go a long way. If the tank / support on your team gets the Aegis, you can get one other MR item if you really need to. If you absolutely needed more, you could just stack Negatron Cloaks by themselves.

Please correct me if I have the wrong formula or if the math is just completely wrong. I did this out of curiosity, since I wasn't exactly sure just how beneficial MR was, since I never checked it.



And btw, non-mana users could get Spirit Visage instead of Chalice if they want to stack MR. Spirit Visage gives +33 MR instead of the +30 from Chalice, and Visage also gives 12% CDR as well as HP5. It costs 1250 gold though (Chalice being only 890 gold).

Edited post to highlight the damage reduced values due to MR.


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Asylumseeker

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Firstly banshees veil doesnt seem that great for it. The rest of their team surely has enough ability powers that could pop atleast 3 of the teams veils so still will be a stomping.

As for annie. I have found corki(long range missiles), nid(as stated before has long range projectile) and kassa(riftwalk followed by a silence are pretty sweet) are good against him.

On the other hand a good team just wont let you get that close for a lot of stuff and shen is an awesome defender. If they also have a long ranged attack they will soften you up just as much. Basically a good annie can carry the team if allowed to.


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gun fu panda

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asylumseeker View Post
As for annie. I have found corki(long range missiles), nid(as stated before has long range projectile) and kassa(riftwalk followed by a silence are pretty sweet) are good against him.
lolwut?


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Evilpigeon

Adjudicator

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Bible View Post
get banshee's veil. yes, everybody on the team. imagine that, building to respond to the flow of the game! :gasp:
Listen to tha bibble.

Seriously though, this works like a dream and will ruin her game. Other good tactics include rushing her with one character to force her to waste it on them or to avoid team fights and split push, works great if you have a team comp that can push well individually.


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Evilpigeon

Adjudicator

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBirk View Post
Yeah, negating 500 damage outright and possibly a stun is totally useless...
Nevermind the 450 hp, and 57 MR.

Banshees+merc treads is 80mr alone. Not including base, aegis, chalice.
You forgot the fact that she has to get real close to hit multiple targets with it as well.

(Double post ftw)


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Vijaya

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asylumseeker View Post
As for annie. I have found corki(long range missiles), nid(as stated before has long range projectile) and kassa(riftwalk followed by a silence are pretty sweet) are good against her.
Fix'd.

Someone already mentioned it, but it needs to repeated:

Don't feed the carry!

You said your team was trading kills, but obviously Annie was coming out on top. This is really, really bad. If Shen was laning with Annie, and he ended up going 0/2 while Annie went 4/2, and your two top went 2/2, you're in trouble. If the people getting kills were your Alistar and Taric, you're in serious trouble. A tank/support character trading kills with a carry is a serious bad idea early game, because the carry will still get their gold, and gold in a carries pocket is worth much more than gold in anyone else's pocket.

I know this was going down on top and you were bottom, but saying "It's just another lane" and letting it go on is a bad idea. Make sure you're checking what's going on whenever you can; see who is getting kills, which lanes are pushing too far and might be gankable, which champs are potentially coming to gank you, who's dead and how much time you have until they respawn, etcetcetc. If you see the Annie is getting kills (even though your team is trading kills), offer to trade lanes. You'll be able to take that tower down later on in the game, for the moment you need to worry about keeping Annie from snowballing.


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