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Any way to stop a fed Annie's Tibbers?

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Mr Scorpio

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Had a game yesterday where my team overall was dominating in kills and towers early-mid match, however our top lane fed Annie pretty good. By late mid-game when team battles picked up, the Fed Annie would only have to drop Tibbers on our entire team, stunning and dealing incredible damage, and then the rest of her team would clean up any survivors. I think we got Aced 3 times due to Tibbers (gg Tibbers). It was hard to stay spread out when we get bottle-necked in the narrow mid lane. Eventually when someone would initiate, we'd all end up in a clump. It was discussed that we'd attack annie first, however it was very hard to do so with a Shen on the opposing team, constantly taunting our advances to her, which stopped us and set Tibbers up perfectly to hit 4-5 of us.

So, how do you handle team battles when Annie is pretty inaccessible as a target? We even fell back to our tower a few times, but late game the tower never deals enough damage to make a difference. It was just frustrating to have such a good game for most of us, but to always be dealing with an Annie who didn't do much other than get her stun passive ready, drop tibbers, and that was it.

And I don't want the answer to be Banshee Veil. Yes, this would work, but is it really necessary for everyone on the team to pick one of these up? Sigh, I hate Tibbers.


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Vindico Atrum

Member

04-20-2010

Don't let top lane feed the annie sounds good to me.

Gank annie.


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Iron Bible

Senior Member

04-20-2010

gank annie.

get banshee's veil. yes, everybody on the team. imagine that, building to respond to the flow of the game! :gasp:


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OmniOblivion

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Quote:
Mr Scorpio:
Had a game yesterday where my team overall was dominating in kills and towers early-mid match, however our top lane fed Annie pretty good. By late mid-game when team battles picked up, the Fed Annie would only have to drop Tibbers on our entire team, stunning and dealing incredible damage, and then the rest of her team would clean up any survivors. I think we got Aced 3 times due to Tibbers (gg Tibbers). It was hard to stay spread out when we get bottle-necked in the narrow mid lane. Eventually when someone would initiate, we'd all end up in a clump. It was discussed that we'd attack annie first, however it was very hard to do so with a Shen on the opposing team, constantly taunting our advances to her, which stopped us and set Tibbers up perfectly to hit 4-5 of us.

So, how do you handle team battles when Annie is pretty inaccessible as a target? We even fell back to our tower a few times, but late game the tower never deals enough damage to make a difference. It was just frustrating to have such a good game for most of us, but to always be dealing with an Annie who didn't do much other than get her stun passive ready, drop tibbers, and that was it.

And I don't want the answer to be Banshee Veil. Yes, this would work, but is it really necessary for everyone on the team to pick one of these up? Sigh, I hate Tibbers.


Try to let Annie initiate first. She's completely helpless when she doesn't have her abilities ready.

Like everybody said, Veil's (or be like me and Black Shield) O_O.

CCs; fight stun with stun.


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NullValue

Junior Member

04-20-2010

If you saw Annie was starting to get fed, react to it before it gets bad. As mentioned, gank her early. Don't let your top lane keep feeding--help them out, offer them useful advice, gank Annie, etc.

Start stacking MR early. Get Merc Treads. Get a Catalyst to build into a Banshee's Veil. Stack Negatron Cloaks if you have to. If you really want, get a Quicksilver Sash. For 1440 gold, it'll give you an item active cleanse and +48 MR. That lets you deal with Shen's Taunt + Annie's stun, and allows you to better survive the Tibber's damage.


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Mr Scorpio

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Well, I stated the obvious response of "Veil". My issue with Veil is it can be a very time-consuming item to build and its components only provide slight protection regarding the situation until the recipe is complete.

It's not cut and dry with letting Annie initiate first. She stayed behind the tank and didn't initiate until the time was right to drop Tibbers. IDK how you'd force her to initiate. As said, Shen did a pretty good job at keeping us at a distance from her.

Anyway, I guess I'll just be more vocal to the team about grabbing a Veil every time Annie becomes a threat...

edit: thanks Null for the comments. I suppose it's up to the mid champion to gank then. I was Zilean in that match on bottom lane -- we were pushing well enough and killing champions down there that I felt breaking off to another lane would be counterproductive to getting an easy tower. And frankly I wasn't even aware of Annie getting fed as the top lane was pretty much trading kills.


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VortexMagus

Senior Member

04-20-2010

position control skills destroy annie

Poppy charge, alistair headbutt, singed slow/fling, blitz grips, push her into your team and focus her down, or pull her away from the fight so she can't hit 2-3 people with her bear, and can only focus you. Keep her away from her comfort zone, which is dancing around the 600 unit or so range of her spells.

Barring that, you could apply the solution of any overfed caster: merc treads, banshee veil, overpowered fiddle disable sequences, suparveigarblastar combo, 5 man bush traps at their golem, etc.

Keep in mind, there's no perfect solution here. Sometimes there's nothing you can do. You might push annie into four of your teammates with perfect health, and watch in horror as she kills two of them outright and tanks the rest until her team gets there. At that point, you've lost anyway.


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gun fu panda

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Blow her up or build MR/CC-reduction.

Other than that...get to lvl 18 and have your carry destroy her.


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MBirk

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Annie relys on mejais to do that instant kill tibbers greatly as well. Sacrificing 2 people or even 3 sometimes, to kill her, will often help turn the tide.

So.
Ward the map. Its very common for Annies to go jungle a bit, or swap lanes. Plan for it, and be prepared to gank her 3 on 1, to make sure she dies.
Warding the map to make sure she doesn't get the drop on you during team fights is a big help as well. Aids in your positioning, and possibly ganking her the moment she tries to flank you to tibbers you.

Erratic movements to make her miss. If she doesnt have flash, its pretty obvious when tibbers is coming. Be ready to cut back, and try to get her to miss. Hit her with a stun and mess up her timing.
Again, sacrificing one person to the tibbers, so the rest of your team can kill her is also a good way to turn the tide.

MR. Aegis, banshees, merc treads.

And many champ specific counters as well.


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TechYS

Senior Member

04-20-2010

Scorpio, just a question. What's Annie's item build?

If she's going pure AP stacking, MR will help. (and yes, significantly decreasing her damage)

If she's going MRPen (as in, Sorc Boots, Haunting Guise, and Void Staff, assume no runes), get HP unless you can bring your MR above 88 or else its a waste of money (If she's getting those items, she definitely has the 15% MRPen mastery)

Tactics:

Should have a skill shot champ (AP Nidalee, actually suits this role very well) to soften the enemy up. Best pushes made by the opponents I've seen are ones that soften the enemy push with ridiculous amount of harassments (and seriously, getting hit by AP Nidalee's nuke skill shot is not fun, and obviously its ridiculous range adds more to its good side. If that Shen is giving you trouble, soften him up, and he will be less trouble when you get to Annie. And hey, if that lands on Annie, even better.

Oh yeah, MRPen is actually better than flat AP for nukers because in the long run it will do more true damage than AP.

This is what you can buy for 11.5k gold.

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Annie/ea68d108221f9126dcb2a4e87bc3b236

Heck, unless you can have more than 108 MR, don't even bother getting any because its all penetrated.

And if no one gets more than that, Annie will be doing true damage as listed on her tooltip, which is pretty insane.

A champ without enough MR who get hit by all of Annie's skills and attempt to hit her will get:

485.6 + 550.6 + 135.2 + 713.2 = 1884.6 dmg

And if that guy is stunned, Annie can probably pull in another Disintegrate and do another 485.6 dmg, making that 2370.2 dmg.

The scary thing is, this is not a before magic reduction damage. This is true damage as long as enemy doesn't have 108 MR. (more than 88 thanks to MPen runes)

She could also ditch the Zhonya's Ring and get Mejais, which cots 9072 gold. If she gets a whole stack from lots of kills that will bring her to max CDR.

It needs snowballing but cheaper and easier to obtain. And when maxed just have a little less AP than a Zhonya's, which means true damage isn't too far from calculation above.


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