Why doesn't LoL have MMR (Matchmaking Rating)?

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Krshna

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Chicken View Post
Why not just do a soft reset instead of adding something else into the mix? If we work under the very valid assumtion that people end up where they belong, it doesn't make much of a difference if you soft or hard reset in the long run. Soft reset just puts similar skill levels together, which is what you want in the first place. This way is easier for them and does the same thing.

Side note, win/loss ratio isn't that important to your elo, its about who you beat. Playing lots of games doesn't improve your elo by itself unless you become more skilled as you play.
But remember... the point of Elo isn't to put similar skill levels together. That is a side effect, and a very welcome one.

But Elo is a score. It doesn't exist to keep you away from bad players so you can play good games unfettered. It exists as a currency to gain/lose to prove your worth.

Many of the people who reach High Elo this Season, did so loooongggg ago, when there were far less players. And once you are there you only have to maintain 50/50 win/loss to stay. The reason you would reset is to give everyone an equal chance. Isn't that the whole point of having a "Season".

If the Elos aren't reset, why even have "Season 1", "Season 2", etc. If the Elo's never reset, then the title "Season" is just a word, meaning nothing. It's just Normal games where you get to see your Elo instead of hidden. It isn't truly competitive if it doesn't reset to equal every "Season".


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replayssoon

Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Chicken View Post
Why not just do a soft reset instead of adding something else into the mix? If we work under the very valid assumtion that people end up where they belong, it doesn't make much of a difference if you soft or hard reset in the long run. Soft reset just puts similar skill levels together, which is what you want in the first place. This way is easier for them and does the same thing.

Side note, win/loss ratio isn't that important to your elo, its about who you beat. Playing lots of games doesn't improve your elo by itself unless you become more skilled as you play.
This. Why add another layer when you can just do a soft reset. In reality I think the solution is to go a system similar to SC2 and using leagues. It makes sense and gives the ability to control the influx of new players to ranked by putting them in there own "newbie league" till they earn their way out. This also makes resets much easier to control.


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Bottleorum

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Chicken View Post
Why not just do a soft reset instead of adding something else into the mix? If we work under the very valid assumtion that people end up where they belong, it doesn't make much of a difference if you soft or hard reset in the long run. Soft reset just puts similar skill levels together, which is what you want in the first place. This way is easier for them and does the same thing.

Side note, win/loss ratio isn't that important to your elo, its about who you beat. Playing lots of games doesn't improve your elo by itself unless you become more skilled as you play.
The bold part. Zero reason for them to have to implement another system when they can just do the proposed soft reset. It also has the added benefit of avoiding issues MMR has such as the difficulty in rising up and time it takes due to you being 1200 again, but having to fight 2200 players (assuming you were 2200).


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XiTro

Member

07-12-2011

needs red post


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Ko Hakoo

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Senior Member

07-12-2011

MMR is an Elo system. They just changed the names of stuff around to keep people like you from QQing. Adding in leagues, and displaying obscured rankings within those leagues also serves to deter complaints because you always seem to be moving, or close to the top of your league.


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Krshna

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankyCentaur View Post
I find that the ELO system is basically the same thing as MMR... I play both games and don't see the difference.
They are basically the same thing. They aren't mutually exclusive, you don't use EITHER MMR or Elo. You use both at the same time.

They aren't really any different. The only difference is that Elo resets every season to preserve the fairness of competition, whereas MMR never resets to preserve the integrity of competition.


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Meiu

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Senior Member

07-12-2011

When you reach 50% win rate that means you are where you are suppose to be. You don't achieve 50% then creep up. 50% is when you lock in. You will have 60% win or 70% win or even 90% win rate until you hit your skill cap then it evens out to 50.

This whole 50.1% win rate = top elo after a trillion games is ******ed. Do any of you even know how ELO/MMR works?


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WhatIsThatThing

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krshna View Post
Well don't credit me. This is one of the very few games that doesn't have it.

Best example would be WoW Arena's since it's once again a Team Game (unlike SC2 where you control your own destiny) and they use a similar rating system.

Every Arena "Season", every player is reset entirely to 0. Whether they were a 2500 Gladiator or a 1400 noob. The reason this works is because of MMR.
And then every season the same players stomp their way up to 2200 until they begin to jockey for position with all the same people they did the previous season. Exactly like a hard reset would work here.


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Krshna

Senior Member

07-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottleorum View Post
The bold part. Zero reason for them to have to implement another system when they can just do the proposed soft reset. It also has the added benefit of avoiding issues MMR has such as the difficulty in rising up and time it takes due to you being 1200 again, but having to fight 2200 players (assuming you were 2200).
There IS a reason. Did you even read the OP?

The reason is, it just isn't fair to not reset. The whole point of competition is to fight it out from an even ground. That's the nature of the concept.

Say in Ping Pong I beat you 11-0 first game. Second game should I start with 5 points, since I'm probably going to win anyway, and I don't want to have to bother scoring the first 5 points on you again?

That's not the way it works. No matter how good you are, every game the score starts at zero. Whether it be a microcosm (one game) or a macrocosm (an entire season).

Saying that people should start at High Elo in Season 2 is no different than saying that Jiji should start with 1500 gold not 475, because he's going to beat you anyway, and he doesn't want to have to suffer through the boring laning phase out csing you when he's going to win anyway.

Don't you see? That just isn't how competition works. And true competitors would not want this reset, this way. You think Michael Jordan would have wanted free Elo, a head start?

MMR, in addition to Elo, (not instead of it as some of you seem to think I am suggesting), would allow a full Reset for total fairness, while still preserving the integrity of the ladder, by not allowing wide gaps in skill to be matched together, even if they have a similar Elo.


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Laraki

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Senior Member

07-12-2011

I think there would be plenty of truth to the part of this post about the "MMR" if there were a truely good and accurate way to rate such a thing in league of legends.

The only things i know of in league of legends that gives you some idea of how skilled a person is really, is a combination of their total games played (which shows you their overall time spent/experience in the game), looking at their tendancy towards wins/losses (shows you their effectiveness and to a degree their ability to team play) and to actually watch that player play to see how they function strategically, and i certainly dont know a way that that can be applied for all the players in League of Legends easily in an automated system...

And as far as hard elo resets "causing chaos" ... i reject this notion completely and will continue to do so as it is based on nothing as far as i can tell -> durring the reset period the best indicator of skill we have would be total games played, and i really dont believe it would be "chaos" for a person with a thousand games played and a past elo rating of 600, to be matched up with a person who also has a thousand games played and had a past elo rating of 1700 for one game, the result of which would affect their new elo rating and help to place them into a better match making situation next game.....

I do also think the soft-reset serves very little purpose and makes a mockery of the competitive nature of the game as you say, but i am hopeful it is Riot's way of testing the waters for Elo resets, though to my knowledge they have not commented on that yet.