How to counter these champions?

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Supreme1337

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Udyr is my main, so I can help you out there:

HARASS!!!!! If you harass him, you force him to level turtle before phoenix or tiger, so he has a lower damage output, and less farming ability. He might cancel your harass damage, but you're forcing him to level a defensive ability instead of an offensive one. This should diminish his early game gold income. Mid/Late game? Team ganks with CC!!!! Don't try to fight Udyr 1v1 unless you are Warwick or Jax (even then its not a sure win). He pwns 1v1. He will stun you a lot and wittle down your health, so if its 1v1, run to your turret and don't let him stun you. Try to coordinate ganks with your team, so you can keep him at a lower level. Basically if you see Udyr on the other team, you should make it your teams top priority to keep him under farmed and under fed. If you let Udyr have his way, he will rape your team all day long!!!


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Nylzxz

Member

04-18-2010

How you counter heroes is gonig to depend on what you play obviously...

Jax: Sword of the divine on a dps hero, take away his dodge and get 30 armor pen is a pretty big bonus. Also, burst magic damage, even if you don't out right kill him he'll be too low to over comit to a kill. Fiddle, annie, to a lesser extent ryze.

Mordekaiser: tbh this guy isn't that good he is nasty as hell on TT, but on 5v5 he gets dwarfed quickly in the end game. You basically have like 2 choices with this guy, if you have a decent number of stuns it is possible to blow him up the second he steps out, at least mid game before he gets too beefy. If you can stun him before his shield goes up you can kill him pretty fast. If his shield is up tho, just ignore him, he has no cc and tbh if everyone on your team gets 1 survivability item, his damage is negligable. And if their mord is building a damage build, well you can kill him like a melee dps. You can also clenase his ult, which just screws him.

Shen: is a tank and you really shouldn't be attacking him first. You just need to be alive to his taunt, and try to keep spread out and avoid it. If he doesn't taunt you his damage is decent, but he isn't a dps. He sort of reminds me of Rammus, its really not worth hitting him first.

Sion: I dunno I've never struggled with him too much, if he is going dps his health will be marginal. If he is AP a little MR goes along way.

Mundo: Executioners calling, trist, katrina(altho she blows), and gangplank. If you can knock his regen down with their abilities he is seriously handicapped.

Udyr: is a really annoying hero, you really should avoid targeting him as well his ability to shift shields make him really hard to burst. his dps is decent, but he needs a lot of items to get really menacing, before that just focus on crippling his dpser. His stun is also short, if you have merc's it will be even shorter.

Zilean: If you are solo laning this guy, MR will save you. Cleanse also removes bombs which can help. If you are in a lane with someone it will depend on lane comp if you can harass him or not. He needs like lvl 3-4 bomb before he gets really nasty. He is also easy to gank if he is fast building AP, his health is pretty low. If you are stuck trying to solo, Merc's + that chalice will do wonders to cut bomb damage. 55 MR is nice. And I mean that chalice is ok on most any hero, its magic resist and mana reg. If you are playing a non mana hero just grabbing one of those MR hoods for like 400 gold isn't a huge loss tbh.


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Jerrett

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Zilean: Cleanse/Quicksilver Sash/Banshee's/Magic Resist are all good options. If he's building MPen items or a Void Staff, you probably are better off not trying to stop him with just MR since it is very easy to bypass MR of up to 100 with items on his end. If he's AP, he's going to be extraordinarily squishy. Focus him ASAP with silence/stun to take him down when he comes forward to bomb. The big thing with Zilean to remember is that when he does hit you with a bomb, you need to retaliate somehow. Don't just run away because you're going to take damage in 4 seconds, do something about it. If you chip away at his health (counter-harass), it will be much less of an issue because he won't have the HP to come out and play. Almost no Zilean gets HP regen early (new vamp scepter changes this somewhat) so during the laning phase you'll be good. He also has to choose between farming creeps and harassing, so pick one or the other to let him be able to do.

Jax: Harass him during the laning phase to keep him short on items (this works for all champions, but melee champions are much easier to harass). Try to fight him/harass him when you don't have creeps nearby (forest/after they've killed your wave) so that he can't stun you as easily. Sword of the Divine, Frozen Heart, and Warden's Mail all really hurt Jax hard. As does Exhaust. In a 1on1 fight you need to do something to stop him from building up attack speed, so you need to kite him.

Mordekaiser: spreading out around him in a team fight is the best way to fight him so he can't build up a shield while taking damage. He will be regenerating a lot of HP from his Ult in a fight. He also has no CC until he gets his Phage. Pick off the people around him first, then turn on him.

Shen and Mundo: almost the exact same as Mordekaiser since they're both tanks. Shen is able to taunt so you want to keep your distance or have Merc. Treads. Auto attacking Shen is a bad idea because he will be auto attacking you for a lot of damage as a result. Mundo is entirely ignorable and is dominated by any healing reduction ability (like Ignite) followed by any consistent CC (like Frozen Mallet) that he can't reduce his way out of. His ultimate makes him fast and tanky, but he's essentially a big bag of HP that doesn't do much in a team fight.

Sion: Break his shield when it's up. Merc treads to drop his stun. He's slow and attacks slow. If you stack some MR against him he's going to be rather worthless and you can kite him all day.

Udyr: Just focus him down. That's really all you can do. If you lock him out of stance dancing for a little bit he won't be as much of a problem. He has no true closing move, so you can also kite him all day. If he's pure DPS, Thornmail or Frozen Heart will make him much less effective. If he's stacking a lot of attack speed, some magic resist is called for.


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Lyrre

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Senior Member

04-18-2010

I main udyr and I know his weaknesses pretty well: CC and teamfights. CC shuts down udyr pretty hard, thus any good udyr will get merc treads and cleanse, in which case killing him will be hard, but Udyr thrives in a 1v1/1v2 situation (1v3 as well if fed, I've had some hilarious moments, including winning a 1v4 when i was 15-1 or something :P). What bugs me the most as Udyr is when a group sticks together as 5, Udyr's not squishy, but hes no tank, focus fire will rip him up, he relies on a good initiator, or your team being scattered (kind of like eve/twitch)


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Priamos

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Also, Sion gets owned by crowd control very badly. If he's AP, he just has his Stun and his Shield, and then he's useless. If he's DPS, then he can still put up a shield, stun you, and start wailing on you with Cannibalism.

But just a bit of CC, a snare/stun/root/fear/whatever, and he's useless. Burst casters own him hard.


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Praedoran

Senior Member

04-18-2010

If you're looking for itemization tips, here's a few:

vs. Udyr: Wits End. Udyr has a tiny mana pool and if a few ranged auto attackers ping him with this a few times, he'll be dead in the water. A Sheen DPS Udyr will have a larger mana pool than a Tank Udyr, but harassed a little first it won't matter.

vs. Jax: Sword of the Divine. He's very reliant on dodge, the active on this power with the help from a caster's burst will help ensure you can both take him down.

vs. Zilean: Chalice. He's unlikely to be the only Caster so the Resist will greatly benefit you. You'll need the mana to push your abilities to keep up in the lane phase against him.

vs. Mordekaiser: Not an item, but a tip: Pressure him with death more than harassment. Giving him time to get powers back from Cooldown will let him continuously take a beating and shrug off harassment.


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TechYS

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praedoran View Post
If you're looking for itemization tips, here's a few:

vs. Udyr: Wits End. Udyr has a tiny mana pool and if a few ranged auto attackers ping him with this a few times, he'll be dead in the water. A Sheen DPS Udyr will have a larger mana pool than a Tank Udyr, but harassed a little first it won't matter.
Not true about the mana pool part if the tank Udyr uses Banshee's.


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ZeaIot

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Recruiter

04-19-2010

Lol, I love everyone's comments and how easy they think it is when talking about Mordekaiser. I main Morde and trust me, he's not easy to take down. Firstly, if any champ gets stunned/slowed for a long time they'll die..so there's no point in saying that. If Morde is built right, his damage is NOT negligible and he will rape your team (sunfire + creeping death + mace of spades + siphon = mass aoe damage). Especially in a team fight if someone on the other team is getting focus fired, put your ult on him and the team fight is instantly a 6v4, with Morde beefed up even more. I've played ~120 games with Morde and literally carried as a tank for more than 70% of them. I guess the only way to stop him late game is to shut him down early game by focusing on him, because even with a couple armors, he can become deadly.

edit: also, spreading out while team fighting won't help either if there's minions near by. And no team has that good coordination anyways.


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sainthero

Senior Member

04-19-2010

Here's my 2 cents:

Mordekaiser: Ignore him in team fights, it's a gg if you focus him in team fights. But, he can't save any of his teammates as he does not have a CC, so go for everybody else. Read the situation well if you're gonna gank him and he's alone, he's the ultimate bait.

Zilean: He's the biggest threat in a 5v5 team fight in your list. If you focus their carry he'll have to ult them. If he does, that means he's almost as good as dead. You have to be quick in doing this, the fight is decided on how fast the fight turns into 4v5. Get a good amount of magic resist if there's another magic damage dealer.

Shen: Don't focus him, get treads to reduce the time of his taunts. If you build enough damage his ult wouldn't be enough to save anyone.

Sion: If he's AP sion, destroy his bubble ASAP then focus carries then him then the tanks. If he builds DPS/crit just get armor for him (thornmail/frozen heart/warden's mail).

Mundo: He's just a big chunk of meat in a team fight. No disables to save his teammates. Go for madred's bloodrazor if you want to and slice him to ribbons.

Jax: Sword of the divine is the usual answer. Only get this if you're a carry. If you're a tank/support get Frozen heart/warden's mail/thornmail on him. His high health makes him a bad choice to focus on a team fight so he should be killed second right after the glass cannons.

Udyr: Don't feed him and don't let the game go more than 45 mins. Once he gets his build up it's going to be hard to stop him, keep that in mind. Just like everybody said, CC him and he's dead. Use same tactic against jax on him.

Udyr, Zilean and Jax are strong endgame characters if fed in any way. Make sure you don't do that, and tell your teammates that.


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OmniOblivion

Senior Member

04-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mathrotus View Post
In almost every defeat I have, there was either a zilean, a jax, a mordekaiser, a shen, a mundo/sion or a udyr on the other team.

I seriously dont know how to counter them.
To me it looks like this:
Zilean pwns major face in the laning phase, making it so he's always gonna be super farmed late game, and then his ult will have a CD of approximately 30 seconds, and will heal him full hp.
Jax has a **** ton of dodge, so logically magic should be better! Well no, because he also has a gigantic health pool, making burst pretty useless.
Mordekaiser.... Mordekaiser... To be honest I have no ****ing clue why hes so strong. I look at his spells and I'm like why is he always dominating like that? It's not like his ult buff lasts forever... right? The only thing I can see here is the same as zilean. Epic farming ability and its uninterruptable since he'll harass you like no ****ing tomorrow if you try to.
Shen... Ugh. That guy is such a giant pile of ****. You'd think "well he has infinite mana basically, so dont let him harass you". I dont. I actually engage him at lvl 1 because if riot has any sense of balance a hero who harasses so well should be pretty weak in direct fights. Wrong. Also his ult: basically turns a 1v1 into a 2v1 and kills you. Only time its pretty useless is when its already 5v5.
Mundo/Sion: What the **** man those guys have CC with like 3 seconds cooldown. Really now? That's all I have to say.... Apart from mundo having ridiculous hp and most of the time ridiculous magic resist and regen, making bloodrazor and deathfire useless.
Udyr: ugh. I know, you need stuns for him. But what if you dont? Or what if he gets merc treads? Or what if his health pool is so ridiculous (+ his turtle shell) that you cant kill him even after 3 stuns?

As of now I consider those champions as OP. Feel free to give me tips on how to counter them so I change advice (I would high appreciate that, as dealing with it myself is probably a better idea that QQing until riot does something)
In order:

Zilean; during the 4 seconds of the time bomb, he's vulnerable. Harass him. (I usually have Cleanse in every game, so I don't worry to much about him).

Jax; cover bushes (zone control), don't let him get into melee range with Leap Strike. CCs are the answer for ANY melee DPS.

Mordekaiser; most Mordekaisers (or aggressive ones) hold Ignite. Keep your HP high against him. Try to stay apart from each other to reduce the effectiveness of his abilities.

Shen; again, keep your HP high, especially when he's 6. Map awareness is key to know when to attack and when not to. Movement is your best offense/defense, as his Shadow Dash makes a great escape/chase tool.

Mundo; never focus fire when he has Sadism active (really come on...). Deathfire and/or Madred's Bloodrazor are a MUST.

Sion; (again, Cleanse, so I don't have trouble...) Movement is, again, best defense. His shield takes 4 seconds before manual and deals no damage if you can take it out. The stun isn't the one that deals the highest damage. Surviving his initial abilities is probably the best i can give you.

Udyr; CCs = crippling melee DPS. It's the only way to beat him. Udyr murders groups without CCs.


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