How to counter these champions?

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Lord Mathrotus

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Senior Member

04-18-2010

In almost every defeat I have, there was either a zilean, a jax, a mordekaiser, a shen, a mundo/sion or a udyr on the other team.

I seriously dont know how to counter them.
To me it looks like this:
Zilean pwns major face in the laning phase, making it so he's always gonna be super farmed late game, and then his ult will have a CD of approximately 30 seconds, and will heal him full hp.
Jax has a **** ton of dodge, so logically magic should be better! Well no, because he also has a gigantic health pool, making burst pretty useless.
Mordekaiser.... Mordekaiser... To be honest I have no ****ing clue why hes so strong. I look at his spells and I'm like why is he always dominating like that? It's not like his ult buff lasts forever... right? The only thing I can see here is the same as zilean. Epic farming ability and its uninterruptable since he'll harass you like no ****ing tomorrow if you try to.
Shen... Ugh. That guy is such a giant pile of ****. You'd think "well he has infinite mana basically, so dont let him harass you". I dont. I actually engage him at lvl 1 because if riot has any sense of balance a hero who harasses so well should be pretty weak in direct fights. Wrong. Also his ult: basically turns a 1v1 into a 2v1 and kills you. Only time its pretty useless is when its already 5v5.
Mundo/Sion: What the **** man those guys have CC with like 3 seconds cooldown. Really now? That's all I have to say.... Apart from mundo having ridiculous hp and most of the time ridiculous magic resist and regen, making bloodrazor and deathfire useless.
Udyr: ugh. I know, you need stuns for him. But what if you dont? Or what if he gets merc treads? Or what if his health pool is so ridiculous (+ his turtle shell) that you cant kill him even after 3 stuns?

As of now I consider those champions as OP. Feel free to give me tips on how to counter them so I change advice (I would high appreciate that, as dealing with it myself is probably a better idea that QQing until riot does something)


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TSP Cinnabar

Senior Member

04-18-2010

CC, Sword of the Divine, Bloodrazor, etc.


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Beelzeboul

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Member

04-18-2010

I ve played jax alot in 3s to the point of boredom and have played against him so often I have found a good jax pug should have a win ratio of over 2wins per loss on the few occasion I have gone down or seen a jax go down is stun magic dmg sion does a good job stunning and shield bursting him and with his alt has decent survivability with sion and any other stun you should be able to bring him down but the only sure counter for jax ive found is countering him with two champions warwick and kennen assist well for him and most mellee will grab a sword of divine to pop when your trying to burst him to avoid his massive dodge but his health pool is huge and if he is fed a single kill early on it could mean game over Ive carried a team recieving only one assist early because if the other team does not feed him he can literally feed himself in the jungles while covering a lane even if it means sacrificing a tower early


Sion is a versatile guy but the dangerous version is the ability power one in which he stuns runs in pops his shield and nearly one shots anyone with relative ease on without his ult this is pretty easily countered by training him when you see the shield you have 4 seconds to cover the dmg and dissipate it before he can pop it

Udyr I recently started playing in tt so im still building a knowledge basis


Shen after lvl 6 dont over extend his especially viscious with stealthers eve and twitch allow him to tele in relatively unnoticed and intitiate a genk that usually ends before his taunt wears off the solution as in 5s is make every fight a team fight and make sure to teach him not to taunt what can kill him

Mundo Wtf
if mundo goes where he wants mundo need to get trained down in team battles ignore him or keep him slowed while kiting and killing his dps sometimes its worth it to stun mundo and wreck his teamates


hope some of this helps


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MagicCoolBus

Junior Member

04-18-2010

These champions are late game Champions so get you team to gank them early. If you bait them and gank them enough they will fear leaving the towers. allowing you to farm and gank elsewhere. also a well balanced team can take out these Champions, if you play pug games don't just use the champion you want use, use the champion that your team needs. if you have tanks and casters be a carry, if you have 3 carries be support to keep them alive. To kill udyr you need cc on your team, for jax never give him a chance to 1v1 someone, mundo will fall to bloodrazors if your team is there (have caster on your team get deathfire -30% hp plus 2.5 for every 100 ap), shen's ult is a pain in the ass but it wont stop a caster from stunning or fearing.

These champions aren't op if you look through the forums you will see constant threads about which champions are op. probably 80% of the champions in lol have at one point been considered op by someone in the forums.

Any champion can be beat with teamwork but with some you can't wait till late game to start trying, you have to wail on them early and be agressive.


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MercurielWorld

Junior Member

04-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mathrotus View Post
Zilean pwns major face in the laning phase, making it so he's always gonna be super farmed late game, and then his ult will have a CD of approximately 30 seconds, and will heal him full hp.
Zilean can certainly be a problem, especially with the range he can place his bombs, the fact that he can speed himself up or slow you down, and his ult. On the upside, other than the slow, he doesn't have any CC whatsoever. If he's giving you issues, get some magic resistance items. It'll help a bunch. As to his ult, remember, he spends a few seconds dead where he can't move. Yes, he may come back with full health, but it won't help him if two or three of your team is standing on his corpse, waiting for him.

Quote:
Jax has a **** ton of dodge, so logically magic should be better! Well no, because he also has a gigantic health pool, making burst pretty useless.
The best way to deal with Jax, especially late game, remains magic damage. Have a nuker on your team blast him on sight, especially if they have Deathfire Grasp. Stun him, CC him, whatever. Unless the other team has another ridiculous DPSer right there (i.e. Tristana or the like), focus fire him immediately. Use teamwork and CC. Blind him and laugh.

Quote:
Mordekaiser.... Mordekaiser... To be honest I have no ****ing clue why hes so strong. I look at his spells and I'm like why is he always dominating like that? It's not like his ult buff lasts forever... right? The only thing I can see here is the same as zilean. Epic farming ability and its uninterruptable since he'll harass you like no ****ing tomorrow if you try to.
Mordekaiser will either be problematic or a complete pushover in my experience. Remember, while his abilities will give him "additional health", if you focus fire him for even a second or two, he can't use abilities without losing health. He's normally a problem just because there's someone who is a better target around, and he has a few seconds to drop a bunch of abilities, get his shield up, and then stand around and tank for a bit. Don't give him the breathing space, even if it's just a shot fired at him every few auto attacks. Remind him that you know he's there.

Quote:
Shen... Ugh. That guy is such a giant pile of ****. You'd think "well he has infinite mana basically, so dont let him harass you". I dont. I actually engage him at lvl 1 because if riot has any sense of balance a hero who harasses so well should be pretty weak in direct fights. Wrong. Also his ult: basically turns a 1v1 into a 2v1 and kills you. Only time its pretty useless is when its already 5v5.
Shen's a tank. Don't forget that. Basically, this means that one-on-one he's going to have an edge, since it's his job to take punishment. Be careful not to overextend yourself if the other team has a decent Shen, since he can taunt you and keep you occupied for the few seconds it'll take his team to show up and finish you off. With Shen, don't prioritize him until you have a few people who can focus fire his ass down at once.

Quote:
Mundo/Sion: What the **** man those guys have CC with like 3 seconds cooldown. Really now? That's all I have to say.... Apart from mundo having ridiculous hp and most of the time ridiculous magic regen, making bloodrazor and deathfire useless.
Mundo doesn't have CC, except for the cleaver, which is a skillshot. Sion's stun has a decent length on it. Honestly, I think your points here aren't entirely a matter of your tactics, but more a matter of your experiences/your team.

Quote:
Udyr: ugh. I know, you need stuns for him. But what if you dont? Or what if he gets merc treads? Or what if his health pool is so ridiculous (+ his turtle shell) that you cant kill him even after 3 stuns?
I think that here we really hit the meat of your problem: You need better coordination with your team. There is no way whatsoever that Udyr should get away from a 3v1, especially if all 3 have stuns. With most of the heroes you've mentioned having problems with, a lot of it seems to be issues dealing with them 1v1. While there are certainly things that you can do to make it easier for you to deal with a single hero, at the end of the day LoL is a team-based game. If you're really having issues, have a teammate help you out. If you can communicate well and coordinate, you should be able to handle it.


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Lord Mathrotus

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Senior Member

04-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MercurielWorld View Post
I think that here we really hit the meat of your problem: You need better coordination with your team. There is no way whatsoever that Udyr should get away from a 3v1, especially if all 3 have stuns. With most of the heroes you've mentioned having problems with, a lot of it seems to be issues dealing with them 1v1. While there are certainly things that you can do to make it easier for you to deal with a single hero, at the end of the day LoL is a team-based game. If you're really having issues, have a teammate help you out. If you can communicate well and coordinate, you should be able to handle it.
I didn't say it was a 3v1. I'm just saying that since he pulls out ridiculous damage we try to focus him first.


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TechYS

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mathrotus View Post
I didn't say it was a 3v1. I'm just saying that since he pulls out ridiculous damage we try to focus him first.
Pure DPS Udyr shouldnt' be able to withstand a good Mage after getting stunned. Even though Udyr does have 2.2k base health, but with Frozen Mallet usually its 2.9k.

Usually he shouldnt' be your primary target (unless he's the only dps on the other team). There's most likely squisher dps/mage beside him on the other team to focus first. Although you do want to focus him like second so he won't bother you for too long.

Tank Udyr, though, may be a pain if he can withstand your mage and lives. That usually means his teammates (if good) can come in and whomp your squishy carries to their graves. If you don't focus him, he will stun you once every 6 seconds. If he has good teammates, it will get bad for your team.

Personally, Udyr is very reliant on good teammates. Having complete melee range attacks means that he's gonna suck if he can't get near you.

Crushing his laning phase, too, will help (a lot). An underfarmed Udyr = he's not going to do well.


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Lord Mathrotus

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Senior Member

04-18-2010

Is there anywhere I can save replays? Like idk uh a livestream that can save replays?
I just played a terribad 3v3 that had both zilean and mundo and we got epicly crushed.
We tried ganking zilean early on as much as possible... Didn't really work out so well since while we were busy ganking zil, mundo and warwick were pushing.

I'd like to be able to save the next game that resembles this one, so you guys can see what I do wrong and what not.


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Priamos

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Zilean: Morgana and Janna beat him in the laning phase fairly easily, since they can use shields to stop magic damage from his bombs. If you're anyone else, try to fight back once he bombs you, since that's all he has. Coordinate with your partner to focus on him if possible. Also consider an item like Doran's Shield to give you more HP regen and health. But remember that Zilean has a really strong laning game.

Jax: ceteris paribus, Jax always wins a late game fight against any other champion. Casters can give him pause, and I've heard that an Udyr can do well against him, as can a Sion with an ult up, but other than that Jax is just too good. Gank him early if possible (made difficult due to Jax's jump ability), stun him in teamfights, whatever. Ranged DPS people can kite him, but actually killing Jax in the late game is really tough.


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Concretar

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Wow, you really dislike all these heroes Riot has come up with.

Jax: I have no idea eather, though sword of the divine can rape him dps while spellcasters (ryze, fiddlesticks) can stop him from atleast running around like he owns the place.

Mordekaiser: One long silence/stun and he's dead. He has to keep his shield up if he wants to make it, but he needs his abilities for that.

Shen: Why the f would you engage in 1v1 against a guy who's stealing your life so hard? Shen just has to be ignored, I usually see him getting killed when he tries to survive without his team for a sec.

Mundo is awesome and you should just hide behind some minions while he rages.

Sion I've never had trouble with? His AD and stun are nasty for fb, but beyond that he's average..

Udyr I've never played and don't really want to either.


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