Thoughts on Poppy

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Sigismund

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Poppy

Note: mathcrafting has been avoided on purpose, I've avoided suggestion specific number changes because, despite being confident that these are the issues that
Poppy has, I don't have the required information to suggest specific, balanced, changes.


EDIT: People have been complaining about my suggestions to her other abilities. Some of them had misread/misunderstood what I had written, but others did raise valid points.
I've removed a lot of what I've written, but what's left is what I consider to be the most immediate issues with Poppy. Changing her early game could potentially make her too strong (as it did to Alistar), but I think her passive and early game both need a change.

I don't think Poppy is in a good place right now, her passive is probably the most powerful in the game at the moment, she has exceptional burst damage and can be very difficult to catch, but her farming is down right terrible.

Her abilities are all very strong (too strong in some cases) and the only thing holding her back is her base stats and her trouble farming.

Base Stats (taken from Learning Centre Champion database):

Damage 56.3 (+3.375 / per level)
Health 423 (+81 / per level)
Mana 185 (+30 / per level)
Move Speed 320
Armor 18 (+4 / per level)
Spell Block 30 (+0 / per level)
Health Regen 1.49 (+0.11 / per level) (1.6*5: 8 hp per 5 at lvl 1)
Mana Regen 1.28 (+0.09 / per level) (1.37*5: 6.85 mana per 5 at lvl 1)

Poppy is one of two champions classified as assassins that does not have ranged harass (the other being Xin Zhao), and unlike Xin, she does not have innate lifesteal. The only means she has to harrass her opponents is to commit herself to a fight where she places herself within range of both opponents (assuming it's a duo lane). Her passive allows her to reduce the damage taken, but her low regen means that she has difficulty regaining lost hp while in the lane.
Another problem is that she has both a small mana pool, and low mana regen. She's is very dependent on her abilities in order to deal damage, but doesn't have the mana required to remain a threat in lane for an extended period of time.
Her low hp & mana regen (both of which are generally seen as early game stats) hamper her ability to farm, and to harrass as most opponents will be able to out
last and/or zone her.

Valiant Fighter - Any damage dealt to Poppy that exceeds 10% of her current health is reduced by 50%. This does not reduce damage from structures.

My main issue with this ability is the surviveability is gives Poppy. Every single caster's burst (with the exception of the odd DoT) as well as most sustained. It discourages Poppy from buying defence items, but at the same time almost doubles her EHP. All other passives that give high survivability have drawbacks; Blitz's shield lasts for 10 seconds and is weaker depending on his current mana, Anivia's egg stuns her for 6 seconds and has a significant cooldown.
Even level one nukes have their damage reduced by half when fighting Poppy early game and makes her deceptively hard to kill when at low hp.
No other passive gives as much survivability, And it can be very frustrating to play against, especially when the Poppy has a pseudo invulnerability and a low cooldown move speed buff.
The damage reduction on this ability should be toned down but only if her base stats are improved to help her laning.
The change on this ability & her stats would be intended to balance out what's most UP/OP about her, these are the two most obvious imbalances for Poppy. Poppy would probably still be too strong, especially since an improvement to her early game would make it easier for her to farm, but further balancing would be easier once these were changed.

tl;dr: Nerfing Poppy's passive, and increasing her early game hp, mana & mana regen would make it easier to balance her. Those changes could possibly make her overpowered but they would make further balancing easier to do.

feedback is welcome


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iTzTooEz

Senior Member

07-08-2011

You just wasted a lot of time writing this. (yes i read the whole thing) but honestly i could of stopped at the title and continued writing this response. Poppy is at a perfect state right now. Farming is a little on the weak side. But grab some mana or mp/5 runes and you can use Q to get last hits early game. I mean its only on a 2.5-4 sec CD. You have a "dash" to reach further minions and if you time it right you can kill the minion on the last hit not pushing it back and staying near the other 2 casters to auto atk/Q for more last hits.

Now her ult is amazing. But your saying to make it shorter? How can she fulfill her "assassin" roll with a short duration? She'll loss survivability and over all damage. (and i think its only 6sec not 8sec)

Her charge is fine. Its all about creating angles with poppy. Its really not that hard to place someone into a wall.

& her W. You want poppy to be able to move faster than anyone in game @ level 3(thats when i get w) AT A LOW MANA COST? no. let it be a dent into poppy mana pool so people dont spam it. Then she'll be crazy OP.


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Capt Orion

Member

07-08-2011

Poppy is hard to farm yes. But when she starts to roll (Feed) she doesnt stop and just carries very easily. So if you have a good lane, and stays alive through that early rough period, she can carry your team very well. I think she is quite balanced.


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Jazz Bat

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Senior Member

07-08-2011

Nah, don't nerf Poppy's passive. Nerf TRYND'S PASSIVE.


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Kehlin

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Senior Member

07-08-2011

you basically want to change poppy completely, nerf all her skills vs champions and make her easier to farm.... thats just dumb


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Sigismund

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kehlin View Post
you basically want to change poppy completely, nerf all her skills vs champions and make her easier to farm.... thats just dumb
Nothing I suggested would be a nerf to her burst damage.

For Devastating Blow, each level currently gives you +20 damage and -0.5 second cd. The majority of the damage comes from the % damage but that remains at 8% at all levels.
What I hadn't taken into account was that it's an "on-attack effect," and compared to others the damage growth is consistent.

The change I suggested to her Charge would be a buff, because the base damage (without terrain damage) would be higher, and the total damage would be unchanged if you got the stun.

The duration change to her ult is because 8 seconds where you prevent the enemy team from intervening is huge. Tryn can be cc'd, and Olaf has hefty damage reduction but isn't invulnerable. Poppy becomes immune to everyone but her target, I don't think her form of pseudo-invulnerability should be changed, but it is very strong at the moment.


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KamakaziGumiBear

Senior Member

07-08-2011

nerf her passive, theres no reason for a carry to be that deadly and that tanky.


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Tenronth

Senior Member

07-08-2011

She's an assassin anti-carry bro, not a carry.


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Sigismund

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenronth View Post
She's an assassin anti-carry bro, not a carry.
I agree, she excels at bursting down a single target and/or taking them out of the fight. Building her ad works really well, but even then the majority of her damage comes from her burst.

I compared her to Xin because I'm going by the tags that Riot gave the champions (they both have the same 3 tags: melee, fighter, assassin) because it reflects Riot's opinion of each character's role.


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Prince Olaf

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Senior Member

07-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigismund View Post
I agree, she excels at bursting down a single target and/or taking them out of the fight. Building her ad works really well, but even then the majority of her damage comes from her burst.

I compared her to Xin because I'm going by the tags that Riot gave the champions (they both have the same 3 tags: melee, fighter, assassin) because it reflects their opinion of each character's role.
first - if you are basing your thread off "tags" then just delete it , tags is something to help lvl 1-10 players to understand what the champ is supposed to be doing.

second- her passive is NOT as good as you think, some guy did a math on it in another poppy QQ thread and its really not 50% reduction like you think ,100 damage does not get reduced to 50 it gets reduced to 88 or 77 or something like that.(that may be bull**** of course but i saw no one correct him and the thread got plenty of reads and responses)

and to some others who think poppy can carry games, she really cant unless you feed her ALOT of kills and what champ cant carry games when fed alot?

also l2build megatron cloak , it just gimps her damage. later upgrade it to Banshe veil


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