Being usefull as Sivir?

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Eddiot

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Honestly don't build crit as crit doesn't affect ric, this is why stark's is a much better item then madred's because the armor reduction helps more.
A Couple of builds:
Squishie Carry:
Stark's
Zerkers/swift
Black Cleaver
BT
IE
Gunblade

BackDoor:
Warmog's
Frozen Mallet
Atma's
Zerkers
BV
BT/Gunblade


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FaerellG

Senior Member

07-08-2011

She actually doesn't have "Mana" issues if you build her right and don't spam Q. Bait a few abilities into your SS and you're good for mana from levels 1-5....at which point your Mana regen per level runes should pick up the slack.

Her auto attack range is short, but her Q is really long range. You can also use her W to 'bounce' attacks down the minion line and harass enemies. I've gotten many kills on fleeing enemies way out of even their auto attack ranges by attacking a line of minions. Watch that ricochet bounce down the line and tag the enemy.

Q is a huge damage nuke as well. My current strategy is to play Sivir in a duo lane with a partner that has a Snare/Stun. BB is the single biggest mid-game nuke currently. The problem is landing the hit properly. If you can have someone root the enemy, it's free damage. I have a friend that plays Maokai right now and he runs Clarity. So it allows me to spam BB as well.

It's generally a good idea to play Sivir as more tanky than your typical ranged DPS and your typical melee carry as well. I run dodge Seals and 0/21/9 masteries with her.
Glyphs are for mana regen, reds are AS, and Quints are move speed.

Flash/Teleport summoners.

Skilling order is Q, E, Q, W, Q, W, Q, R (yes I delay my R until level 8, the ricochet is more important IMO.)

Equipment, I start Doran's Blade
Pick up lev 1 boots and rush a Thirster
Then upgrade boots and pick up some attack speed.
Try to get a Banshee's Veil before late game while continuing to build AD and AS.

Good options are: 2nd Thirster, Cleaver, Stark's, Frozen Mallet, (I avoid Bloodrazor unless I'm the only auto attack champion on the team). Manamune can work if you're someone that has trouble managing your mana.
You can also do the Warmog/Atma combo (though I dislike it because it lacks midgame power).

Early game focus on farming and harassing like any good ranged champion. Use spell shield to sustain. You can do this mid as well, you just have to be very good with your spell shield. Remember, early game is about winning the Gold/XP race, not about scoring kills. Kills get you gold and XP though...just remember to weigh that against gold from minions before you dedicate to trying to kill. Risk vs reward and all. Letting an opponent bp early is just as good as killing them sometimes. They miss out on XP and gold...just shove minions into their tower and get some damage in on that sucker.

Mid-late game, you;re sivir, so you should have the first tower down. Hard push out your lane and then run to another lane to push it hard. Lots of split pushing. This continues until you've knocked down all 3 outter turrets of your opponent. From here on out just knock down turrets at every opportunity.

Team fights requires you to stand back and let your ricochet do the work. You should probably be building Sivir with "tank buster" items like Cleaver because frequently, the tank is the only person that can be targeted safely with your short auto attack range. And don't forget your Ult as soon as the fight is initiated.


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concretebuddha

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Why doran's blade?

With a meki pendant and two health pots, you can Q and E until you get enough gold for whatever you want, and that's 400 effective health versus harassment.

Versus +100 health on the blade, plus piddly auto attack health regen that you shouldn't be using anyway. (You should be last hitting only.)


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Aramathia

Member

07-08-2011

Sivir = under powered DPS with a group support ult and absolutely zero CC ability. IMO, you want to know what to do with Sivir? Don't chose her. She sucks and commonly has to waste her ult or ghost to run away, hoping one of the enemy champs don't slow her or stun her, where they promptly chew her a new butt.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by concretebuddha View Post
Why doran's blade?

With a meki pendant and two health pots, you can Q and E until you get enough gold for whatever you want, and that's 400 effective health versus harassment.

Versus +100 health on the blade, plus piddly auto attack health regen that you shouldn't be using anyway. (You should be last hitting only.)
Doran's blade for the extra damage when you harass and try to gank with your partner. The life steal does make a difference, and +100 health starting is pretty amazing.

I try to only last hit with my auto attack and hold my BB in reserve for harass and counter harass. Hence I don't need mana regen.

The health pots are 400 health...sure...but that's over time. If you eat a hard burst while your SS is down, you won't have time to absorb all of that 400 health, you'll be dead. Ignite (a very popular summoner spell) will also screw you up badly.

The other option is to go Doran's Shield which is nice for base health regen and more armor. However, most mid carries pack Armor Pen in their Runes and Masteries. The base HP again helps nicely. The problem I have with that pick though is that it basically telegraphs to your opponent "Hey, I'm just going to last hit and not bother harassing, so you can virtually harass me with impunity."

At level 1 and 3, BB just doesn't do enough to discourage a good ranged DPS from harassing you and zoning. Especially if they took boots and are dodging your BB. BB only gets to that "nukishly" good stage at level 5-9.


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concretebuddha

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Not trying to say your wrong here, I just find that harassing with BB is effective on a 9 sec cd, and the only way to spam it is with mana regen.

The damage numbers at minimum with one hit are 1~80 / 3~125 / 5~170, which is excellent versus typical mid squishies.

Since I'm out of range all the time, the +10 damage from doran's blade is useless since I'm never in range to harass with an autoattack. (Talking versus a good mid, like annie, MF, cait, ashe, malz...opponents I do not want to approach.)

The life steal does not add up to a 300 hp difference over the time it would take to life steal that back, especially since I'm never auto attacking except to last hit. (It's 3% of 52.11 (+2.9/level). So 1.8~2.3 a hit. Which does nothing if I'm sitting under my turret oom at half health.) Doran's Shield is better on her, if you don't want to spam BB, but really, I prefer being more aggressive. Or heck, buy a regrowth pendant and get a philosopher's stone.

And on a gank, wouldn't you rather have already harassed the opposing mid to half health with BB?

I mean, YMMV, but I've never seen the purpose of a doran's blade on Sivir. Other character's with a longer range, sure. But BB is way too good to not want to harass with.


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Silenc3izGold3n

Member

07-08-2011

I run per level mana blues and yellow and NEVER have mana issues...especially once I get to level 10. Good use of spell shield can really make it a breeze early game also.

I find spamming the **** out of Q and W has me wind up with less last hits than if sparingly use Q and last hit without richochet.

All chalice ever did positive for me is make me be able to spam my moves then regen fast when I'm low. But it made me weak as **** and not even be able to compete with any carry in the game. Same thing with manamune. It just kept me weaker for longer. Not that sivir is a pure dps, but she can't afford to be weaker long than she has to be.

I agree wtih Faerell


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concretebuddha

Senior Member

07-08-2011

I guess I'm a BB spammer then. I use it to pull wolves, wraiths, check bushes, etc.


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HotsauceShoTYME

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramathia View Post
Sivir = under powered DPS with a group support ult and absolutely zero CC ability. IMO, you want to know what to do with Sivir? Don't chose her. She sucks and commonly has to waste her ult or ghost to run away, hoping one of the enemy champs don't slow her or stun her, where they promptly chew her a new butt.
Wrong


Sivir is actually borderline OP when played right. She has a natural high base damage when runed and built right you can last hit like a champ without using BB or ricochet.

She can be used as a strong dps support character or primary dps carry and put out a ****load of damage. A big plus is she can push a lane like a son of a *****.

For dps carry go 21/9/0
get flat damage marks and quints
flat armor seals
M pen glyphs
Get dorans blade to start.

Get E/Q/Q/W/Q then level R>Q>W>E. If you get a mage that can spam then level E over w.
You want a solo lane and just focus on last hitting and controlling your lane. Don't worry about using BB to harass unless the enemy exposes themselves. Use BB so you don't stay at full mana but if you just last hit and are good with catching spells with E you don't need mana regen at all and you should be able to lane. The flat armor makes it hard for AD carries to win the lane against you. Don't underestimate the advantage the extra armor the runes and mastery gives you.

Last hitting should be a breeze with this rune/mastery/item setup. You start off hitting minions for 85+.You should get 100+cs in less than 15 minutes easily. This is better than kills you may or may not get.

Build sorceress boots and LW first. Why sorceress boots. Your Q does magic damage but scales off AD. In short you hit carries for alot from the jump with q unless they get MR. In team fights activate ult and ricochet(this is why you level it over E) and hit the closet target. You should be able to stay out of danger unless you can gain a superior position after initiation then merc the carry. Aim your Q at a carry and watch them drop. After LW(for armor pen which you lack) BT is good for pure damage. If you want AS get starks. If you need MR get banshees and magic shield item with damage. For defense against AD sunfire is decent but with a high natural dodge and good farm ability warmogs atma's is not a bad idea totally. Just takes longer to realize the benefit.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

07-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by concretebuddha View Post
Not trying to say your wrong here, I just find that harassing with BB is effective on a 9 sec cd, and the only way to spam it is with mana regen.

The damage numbers at minimum with one hit are 1~80 / 3~125 / 5~170, which is excellent versus typical mid squishies.

Since I'm out of range all the time, the +10 damage from doran's blade is useless since I'm never in range to harass with an autoattack. (Talking versus a good mid, like annie, MF, cait, ashe, malz...opponents I do not want to approach.)

The life steal does not add up to a 300 hp difference over the time it would take to life steal that back, especially since I'm never auto attacking except to last hit. (It's 3% of 52.11 (+2.9/level). So 1.8~2.3 a hit. Which does nothing if I'm sitting under my turret oom at half health.) Doran's Shield is better on her, if you don't want to spam BB, but really, I prefer being more aggressive. Or heck, buy a regrowth pendant and get a philosopher's stone.

And on a gank, wouldn't you rather have already harassed the opposing mid to half health with BB?

I mean, YMMV, but I've never seen the purpose of a doran's blade on Sivir. Other character's with a longer range, sure. But BB is way too good to not want to harass with.
oh, I'm not saying that the Meki start is "wrong" either. I'm just saying that my play style combined with my runes/masteries no longer needs Mana-regen items.

I used to start Meki + 2 health pots. It's not a bad start. But I've found that I live just fine without it.
I generally don't auto attack the enemy champion either if I'm solo laning. I usually am harassing with BB...which does benefit from Doran's damage boost.

However, I've switched to this build mostly for Duo-laning where that extra damage can really add up when I can consistently land a BB double hit. that +10 ends up being like +18 damage on BB when you count the return trip.

But yeah, you guys sound like BB spammers, not necessarily bad, but I find that it pushes the lane unnecessarily. I prefer to last hit conservatively.