1 vs 2 - champ no-no's

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pehtis

Member

07-07-2011

There are often games where you are forced into 1vs2 during lane phase. You have a jungled or you have an afk/leaver. There are certain champs that it is a very bad idea to have them try and hold 1vs2 lane. In my limited experience in the playing of normal and low ELO ranked games it had become clear that a great many players get this totally wrong.

Therefore I ask the community to quickly post which specific champs:
a) make terrible 1vs2 laners and should NEVER ;

b) champs that are not optimal when faced against strong duo combos.






P.S You may have noted a similar question in an earlier thread I started to help improve player understanding of the game. I realised the subject areas in that thread require their own stand alone thread. Many players that player normal and low ELO ranked don't have a clue which leads to often disastrous decision choices. I am hoping these kind of threads help improve the gaming experience of many players when they team up.


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iP1ayJarvan

Senior Member

07-07-2011

leblanc, thats why i always take mid if there's a jungler, or bot. she cant defend the turret at all.

tryndamere....should not be put to 1v2 especially if both are ranged. get zoned

any support, the gold's wasted on them, kinda. but there are viable 1v2 supports.


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TomCruiseFTW

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Member

07-07-2011

It is terribly hard for most melee heroes to face a 1v2 especially if there is a ranged. You can keep up in level by hugging, but farming will almost not exist for most melee.

You can use a melee like Pantheon, with a little mana regen, can last hit with his q.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

07-07-2011

Each 1v2 champion must have reliable AOE abilities to push waves back from their tower. Otherwise they would loose the tower in no time at all.


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NoobsWillOwnU

Member

07-07-2011

Pretty much to rehash what's been said...
Of course it's always dependent on WHO you're laning against and how well you know your champs limits...


What do you need in a 1v2 situation (I'm assuming early game (0:00 - 15:00)

  • Crowd Control
  • A way to absorb or prevent Damage
  • An effective way to Regain HP that doesn't rely only on potions
  • Mana Efficiency - The alternative to this is using an Champ that uses Energy instead.
  • A Ranged form of attack. (Auto-Attack or AoE)

90% of the melee guys here will get Zoned, harassed, killed and loose your tower.

Melee Champions who can prove to be a viable Exception IMO are:

  1. Cho'Gath
  2. Mundo
  3. Mordekaiser
  4. Gangplank
  5. Nasus

Supports are a waste and will simply end up allowing the other team to essentially dominate a Free lane.

Generally the safest bet for me would be to pick someone who has the following:
  • Ranged Abilities > Melee Abilities
  • AP Champion ( i do honestly believe they are better suited to this role than AD)
  • Able to easily push and prevent Harassment
  • Able to easily Harass And/Or Zone at least one of the enemies. (Focus 1 at a time to maximize damage. You might be able to force him to go back, or expose himself for a potential kill)
  • Able to escape from Tower Dives or unexpected pushes (such as Ez's flash, Vayne's Tumble, Veigar's Stun, etc... Because in the end, flash cannot save you from everything. Do not rely on a summoner ability with, what does it have, a 3 or 5 minute cool down or something like that?

Who can do this the best?
Note: Excluding Melee since I already listed those
Heimer
Morgana

Other Options
Vayne
Karthus
Veigar
Cait
Brand
Ashe




Just food for thought.

There really isn't a champion built to fill that early 2v1 Aspect of the game. Although there are some that can be better suited for that role, ultimately it depends on Who you're up against and your own Skill + Awareness.

*YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO GET KILLS* Do NOT Risk yourself unless it is absolutely CLEAR that you can get a kill.


The Priority should be simply to get gold and Survive. Your primary Objective is to NOT DIE your secondary objective is to Keep the Tower up for as long as possible.

You want to minimize your opponents ability to get Gold and Exp. If you can do this, EVEN if you are left gold-starved, you have drastically hindered the EXP and Gold of 40% of the enemy team. As long as your other lanes are not being dominated, you and your team will be rewarded during the Ganks and Teamfights. Even a 4v5 Game can be won if you prevent at least 1 of your enemy from being able to preform their designated role for their team


Edit: added Nasus, thanks for pointing that out


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Lizto

Senior Member

07-07-2011

It is a misconception to think that ranged champions are the best suited for the job. Ranged champions will be squishier, thus easier to push out of a lane, easier to dive. You can last hit better than a melee, but chances are, a melee will hold the turret better. Also upon getting your jungler to gank, a melee champion will both be stronger than a ranged and prevent an easy focus fire on the jungler, which could end up in him dying before you get a kill. Ranged champions also tend to have less CC.

Good 2v1 champions are:

Cho gath
Nasus
Jarvan
Nocturne
Warwick
Taric
Shen
Mundo
Blitzcrank
Renekton
Alistar
Irelia
Mordekaiser

There are also good ranged champions, I wont deny, but you will see that the melee champ list is much larger.

Heimerdinger
Annie
Caitlyn
Malzahar
Morgana
Tristana
Nidalee


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Lorifel

Senior Member

07-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobswillownu View Post
Melee Champions who can prove to be a viable Exception IMO are:

  1. Cho'Gath
  2. Mundo
  3. Mordekaiser
  4. Gangplank
Nasus as well.


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NoobsWillOwnU

Member

07-07-2011

The OP was talking about a forced situation in which one of your Teammates leaves or DC's or is AFK. Having 1 jungler is included here I guess, but that wasn't the primary focus of his questions. He's asking what is best for a situation where the game becomes 4v5. What should you do?


yes I agree that melee champions are stronger offensively against other champions, especially in a gank situation. But I think that if that's what you're trying to do in a 2v1 situation, you are being unnecessarily reckless and will most likely only help the enemy team. Yes, Champions like Nocturne can do a decent job at protecting the tower when the other side's minions are right at your front door. But he can do next to nothing against the actual opponents themselves. The idea is to keep that from happening as much as possible so your tower survives as long as possible!!

What is he going to do, His ranged attack is designed to Chase, not harass. It's also not a viable solution to enemy harassment early game. How is he going to escape from a negative situation? Flash? Ok that was one case, now what about the other times it's gonna happen? Yes, his HP is just as bad as most Ranged, but at least they are not helpless against the other side as well. That's my point. Ranged champs have a better potential to control their lanes. I'm not worried about how they preform in a 2v1 battle because since you're ranged, you shouldn't be able to give them an opening to suprise you. For Most of those melees you listed, you have to expose yourself if you want to do anything besides sit at the tower.

Even if you're turret hugging, you will STILL get harassed constantly if the other team is able and has an intelligence of a 3rd grader. Brand will still get you with his W - And without risk from the turret too! What are you going to do? Move out to meet him? To respond in any significant way, you've overextended yourself beyond your protection, and then you've died and fed the other team.

Lets assume you don't do that, and you're a bit smarter. You can dodge most of the aoe's and you don't let yourself get baited. Now what? If the enemy has at least 1 ranged champion, they will be knocking at your tower, and you wont be able to adequately respond beyond keep their melee (if they have one) from whacking at it too.

That is the point i was trying to get across, You are Essentially Helpless! Furthermore, champions like Nocturne are better off laning with a partner or ganking another lane. His Worth as a Carry and his ability to contribute to his team is Hindered by doing this. So now you have an underfed and underfarmed Carry trying to hold out against 2 champs whom its not unreasonable to assume that you may die to at least once. In a 4v5, The other 2 lanes still have their hands full and by definition a Jungler isn't going to magically appear to save you every time. Even with coordination, that's unrealistic.... You're shooting yourself in the foot here!

The only possible melee champs you can use are the tanky ones. They aren't reliant as much on being mobile or by getting kills. So the ones that are more offensively orriented like Morde Mundo or Cho can fill this role well - on that part I'll agree with you.


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DA

Senior Member

07-07-2011

Forgot Gragas, he can do a 1v2 pretty well.


Past that, if you really want to narrow in on a single situation like this and entertain the unique snowflakes....

You have a bad melee champ for a 1v2, and a 4v5, k.

- Doran's Shield pretty much regardless

- Hug/Farm at the turret as much as you can while getting moderately harassed

- Get zoned eventually and buy extra pots for your next attempt. (You must be willing to eventually lose the turret to prevent deaths)

- Eventually lose the turret while asking for ganks that may or may not prevent it.

- Continue same idea, rinse/repeat at next turret

- Stall them as long as possible at each level of turret essentially and hope your other lanes murder.


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CARDBOARDWARRIOR

Senior Member

07-07-2011

Rammus.

Nah just kidding.


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