The Codex Metallicus: A guide to Mordekaiser.

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Churchy

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Friend of Urf

04-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyGin View Post
Aside from the fact that you are wrong on many points I will just adress your horrible horrible math.

Let's say, your attack does 80 damage or so. With +100 from mace of spades, hitting targets you are doing 180x4 = 720. 5% of 720 = 36. Siphon does 245 x 4 = 980 dmg 5% of that is 49.

Combining those two, you are gaining 85 health every 6 seconds (you could realistically do it faster if you had CDR, which you should have...) That works out to 72 hp/5. Last I checked, that's roughly thrice the effective regen of wardens mail?

If you're relying on running away, you're playing morde wrong because a) he has no escape skills, b) he is slow. Either you will get away because they don't chase you, or they focus you and you die despite trying to run away. Who cares if you have 100 more hps by the time you get to your fountain?

And if you think you don't need to do damage as morde... lol. Have fun being ignored. A Morde that does nothing to increase their damage output is a detriment to the team as they don't bring anything else to the table such as CC.
You don't become a threat by getting 20 mpen, by the way.
I wasn't thinking straight on the mace of spades (too long without sleep for my quant analysis test sorry), so I did the 100dmg bonus, but if it all applies as magic then yes that would be roughly 70hp/5. That's thrice as effective as warden's, without the armor or effect, if you are able to hit creeps and stuff.

I don't know what kind of games you play, but you aren't a threat on mordekaiser because of your 250 damage nuke (if people consider that a threat then they aren't much more effective than minons are they?). You force people to attack you by playing like this guide says, by wading into combat with your girth, then having them over commit trying to kill you.

If you are relying on 5% of your 250 damage nuke to heal you, then you are playing morde wrong because A) That heal is ****, especially when you don't have a creep wave (which you won't in a team fight) and B) that 1400g you just wasted means you lost out on armor/mr and are now less of a tank.

If you think that your haunting guise will make you any more of a noticeable threat than a morde without one...lol. Have fun still being ignored until they destroy you because you didn't pick regen/armor/mr items and fall apart like limp spaghetti. A morde that tries be a damage dealer is a detriment to their team because morde is a tank, and doesn't bring any effective dps to the table, with or without damage items.


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SyeBlaze

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04-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchy View Post
Also an analysis of AP on mordekaiser:

Let's say you build an AP mordekaiser, your items would be:
boots (I always go tabi/mercury so I won't include the ****ty sorc shoes)
abyssal scepter (70)
mejais (180)
zhonyas (120)
rylais (80)
lichbane (80)

minimal waste on mana items, some move speed and survivability, and some heavy AP with some decent penetration and slows. Keep in mind this isn't in order or anything just my musings on the subject.

You would have a total of 650 ability power, meaning your siphons on a 5 something second cd would do 580 aoe damge, your shield would do 1080 damage to anyone who got caught in the full 6 seconds next to you, and considering you would slow them they probably would. Your mace of spades would hit for AD+200+650 on a single target.

As powerful as that sounds, it doesn't compare to true casters with 650 AP.

Then we take into account his ult. 650AP would give your ult a 1.3% increase on draining. Which is roughly a 40% increase in draining. But on the same note, 1.3% for 8 seconds is an extra 10.4% drained. So your ult would do a total of 42.4$ of someone's health.

On someone with 2k health, that 10.4% increase is roughly 200 health, or a .3 ratio of AP. But on a tank with 3k health, that becomes a .5 ratio.

It'd be fun to try to roflstomp pubs with on a smurf, but not that powerful overall.

This post brought to you by my rambling tendencies.
AP is mostly useless on morde. I won't discount it completely, as I've never fully tested it, but it's only ever been successful for me in practice games.

Now, I will stand by my choice of Haunting Guise: The more damage you do, the more your shield is healed, and the less damage the rest of your team has to do to the enemy team. There are also circumstances where I've taken on two or three semi-carries and killed them. He can do respectable DPS. It's not his job, but it is there in a pinch, and should therefore be used. Especially since Haunting Guise is about as cheap as it gets, and while the vamp is small, it is not "Negligible". Every bit helps.

I can see where you don't think it's useful, but sometimes your massive girth is not enough to get people to focus you in a fight. You've also got to be the one annoying them most. Be there, doing that extra 250 damage to their carries whenever they wander too far astray. Hit that tank once or twice. You won't get much from it, but getting hit will still be a deterrent.

With enough health regen (the build here gives you at LEAST 100 hp/5), the health cost on the spells is negligible in comparison. This means hitting every minion wave you can, whether you need the shield or not.

As a final note, not everyone plays or CAN play a character the same way. I don't mind such discussion here, but please don't flame each other. Doesn't do anything but makes the rest of the discussion distasteful. Also, gonna be posting this on LeagueCraft when I have the time. Will update OP when I have the guide on League Craft.

EDIT: Almost left an un-adressed question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DagonChicken View Post
+1'd

What do you think of sunfire cape on him?
Sunfire capes on morde is another one of those playstyle things.

I, personally, think there are better items for him. Sunfire Capes are expensive, give him more health than he needs (barring certain team make-ups) and does not give him sheild for all those minions he's farming. This means there are less hitpoints on minions with which to charge your sheild, as they are burned by the sunfire.

The AOE damage is not worthwhile by the time you get it (should not be first item)

So, no, I personally find sunfire cape useless. I'm sure others disagree, but the damage is not worth not getting something of similar cost that gives him more, like Guardian angel, thorn mail (because punishing people that are attacking you (and people SHOULD be attacking you) is good),or force of nature, spirit visage, etc.

Its not that its bad, it's just that there are better things for the same price for Morde.


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

04-18-2010

Double posting to say that I uploaded the guide to LeagueCraft. Can be found here:

http://www.leaguecraft.com/strategie...dex+Metallicus

It has pretty pictures and and stuff to make it a bit easier to use.


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Karnikula

Senior Member

04-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyeBlaze View Post
It's a good point. However, as a tank, I find snowball items to be a poor choice. The point of a tank is to be in the position of "MOST LIKELY DO DIE" as much as possible so the rest of the team doesn't have to be. That means that you are probably going to die at least once.

I keep thinking Leviathens would be good on him, but I can never fit it into the build.

Also, I again feel that there are too many enemies that do more damage based on you having more hit points, which means your free hitpoints from your sheild mean less. If you don't have these enemies in the game, I suppose going for it is no problem (no mundo, attack speed champs, etc)

But it is something to keep in mind. Others (like yourself) will disagree with this logic, and that's fine. Mine is not the only build.


Basically, I build for reliability.
basically you build for "i will die?"
i build for "no freaking way i will die"
mordekaiser is a really bad escaping hero, but he's the strongest tank as long he can fight in a crowd, especially with mejais since it drills his shield damage up giving him lots of METAL

FoN / Boots / Mejais / Leviathan / GA - mordekaiser basics, without leviathan you'll have terribly low health which sucks if the enemy initates on you with no metal on

also when you have 2 snowball items, they'll support each other, each kill you get makes getting kills easier, and makes getting killed much much harder

AP is a tankstat for mordekaiser


edit: on the sunfire thing, while i never build sunfire capes, there's a reason to build one
heavy aoe nuke teams

basically it builds around you not being that unkillable tank and not being some hard killer, and not abusing your ultimates power

but around the fact that nuking you down is hard while you ditch out heavy aoe damage giving your Annie / Amumu / Ryze / Corki / Whateverseriously time to completely annhilate the enemy team

i've seen one of those on my team, he had bad luck early game but after he had built 2 sunfires he survived any teamfight because they didn't last over 10 seconds (our team having annie and AP ezreal) Sunfires also stack perfectly with FoN, giving him the armor he needs and some HP to buff the Regen


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

04-18-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnikula View Post
basically you build for "i will die?"
i build for "no freaking way i will die"
mordekaiser is a really bad escaping hero, but he's the strongest tank as long he can fight in a crowd, especially with mejais since it drills his shield damage up giving him lots of METAL

FoN / Boots / Mejais / Leviathan / GA - mordekaiser basics, without leviathan you'll have terribly low health which sucks if the enemy initates on you with no metal on

also when you have 2 snowball items, they'll support each other, each kill you get makes getting kills easier, and makes getting killed much much harder

AP is a tankstat for mordekaiser


edit: on the sunfire thing, while i never build sunfire capes, there's a reason to build one
heavy aoe nuke teams

basically it builds around you not being that unkillable tank and not being some hard killer, and not abusing your ultimates power

but around the fact that nuking you down is hard while you ditch out heavy aoe damage giving your Annie / Amumu / Ryze / Corki / Whateverseriously time to completely annhilate the enemy team

i've seen one of those on my team, he had bad luck early game but after he had built 2 sunfires he survived any teamfight because they didn't last over 10 seconds (our team having annie and AP ezreal) Sunfires also stack perfectly with FoN, giving him the armor he needs and some HP to buff the Regen
How often do you go X/0/X in a game?

If you can claim that you do this EVERY game, then by all means, snowball items are great.

But when you are a tank, you should not be thinking "I need to not die so I can keep my stacks"
you should be thinking "**** you guys, you aren't laying a hand on my team until my corpse is cooling on the ground. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM!?"

That being said, those kinds of snowball items go against your basic "I'ma Tank" Mentality

If you were going DPS or AP Morde (they exist) then by all means, grab mejais and grab leviathans, and be the guy that runs from team fights with half health.

As a tank, you should be willing to die to save someone who HAS stacks to maintain. If you can't do that, then you are playing the wrong role.


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Dope Masta G

Senior Member

04-18-2010

This whole discussion about Morde made me lol hard.
Build Morde weak if you want, it seems to be the thing 50% of the posters, include the op, in this thread like doing.

I can't believe I actually read abandon Warmog's. Warmog's is phenomenal on Morde because of his ridiculous farming capabilities. You can argue to reason of "too much HP isn't a good thing because of pOPpy and Bloodrazor" but those are entirely situational. So that being said, don't use them in THAT situation! It's an incredibly useful item otherwise, and even then, you could use it in said situations anyways then stack items w/ hp/5, armor, and magic res while relying on it to be your primary source of health.


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Karnikula

Senior Member

04-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolope View Post
This whole discussion about Morde made me lol hard.
Build Morde weak if you want, it seems to be the thing 50% of the posters, include the op, in this thread like doing.

I can't believe I actually read abandon Warmog's. Warmog's is phenomenal on Morde because of his ridiculous farming capabilities. You can argue to reason of "too much HP isn't a good thing because of pOPpy and Bloodrazor" but those are entirely situational. So that being said, don't use them in THAT situation! It's an incredibly useful item otherwise, and even then, you could use it in said situations anyways then stack items w/ hp/5, armor, and magic res while relying on it to be your primary source of health.
warmongs is wasted on mordekaiser

@OP i usually die 1-3 times when i successfully tank on mordekaiser, and yes i don't kill myself because someone gets ganked by 3 ppl, i'll try to help him but stay relativley save, i'll only tank when i have a team that's worth tanking for

that way i'll be unkillable AND have my snowballstacks making my DPS strong until endgame


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DreamyDays

Senior Member

04-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnikula View Post
warmongs is wasted on mordekaiser
This.

Or, at least, if you don't get Cleanse, and you don't get Mercury's Treads.....
You might need that 1k health to survive in case you got CCed before the Siphon.

Although, I must say, I won't think about choosing Morde without Cleanse, but that's me.


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gh0stship

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Senior Member

04-19-2010

since the change +spell vamp , i use it every time i play mord. my build is identical to yours, +phage later to frozen mallet.

my usual build.
starting item
-doran shield+pot (with max defense masteries you got 680+ health.. i think.)
main item -
Haunting Guise - is a must
thornmail - depends .. > 2 melee dps? go for it
phage > later to mallet if you have the time. (trust me this will help you smash them in the face)
merc boots - the best defense against mage or boot of mobility.
warden mail - this can be swap with your haunting guise for the first item.
anything else except warmog (for once it not about the extra hp issue , its costly!!! )/mana item. lol

ignite+CoG+haunting guise = win!

=D

i never fail with this build , i found tank mord will carry your team most of the time.


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

04-19-2010

Well, at least people have some success.

Whether this build is viable at an elo higher than what I am, I cannot say.

I suppose, at the rate I'm winning, I'll find out...

NOTE: I'm also terrible at Twisted Treeline, so don't ask me any advice for that. I don't think this build is good for it.


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