Lane counter harrass advice - help needed

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pehtis

Member

07-05-2011

I freely admit I'm not the best player even though I recently capped at Lvl 30 (it really wasn't that hard). What I have found is I tend to struggle against really good harrass champ combos (especially early game). I do want to improve my game regardless of what champ I end up playing (admidettly I play several). What follows are areas of game play I feel a great many newish players need advice.

I would appreciste player feedback on the following:

1) Best harass combos faced and how to counter (mainly early game).

For example Nocturn/Xin + whatever lane partner make very strong duo laners. There are other combos of course as this was just an example based on my limited experience. I would appreciate player input on combos.


2) 1vs2 lane No-no's

There are times where you are forced into 1vs2 lanes (you have Jungler, or afk/disconnectors). I'm looking for player perspectives on what champs should never 1vs2. You know champs even with tower hugging would not help (get killed anyway and/or lost tower) especially against those strong lane combo's at 1) above.


3) 1vs2 counter-harrassment tips

If you have any tips on how to effectively counter when you are 1vs2 would be cool. Maybe discuss your champ and how you use.


Feedback on any on the 3 subject matters above is welcomed. To avoid confusion to readers here, just just point out in your post which area(s) you are addressing.

Many thanks.

P


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dovvntempo

Senior Member

07-05-2011

1 v 2 lane no-no's: casters that can't clear minion waves fast enough to prevent swarms from building up at tower. Kassadin can't for example, but say perhaps, Malzahar can. Even if your champion is safe at the tower, it doesn't matter if your tower goes down very early. A caster that can 1 v 2 effectively would be Galio ( or at least when he first came out ), but this was only doable with teleport. He could lane somewhat well with the regen from bulwark, and with efficient use of E ( gust or whatever ) harass and damage the minion wave without running out of mana. Come level 6, and he can possibly get a kill. Maokai might be able to manage it, as he's got the passive heal and a very good harass game. Come to think of it he reminds me of my ol' gally.

Off the top of my head, Cait would be a good 1 v 2. She has a good early game, can harass and clear the wave well, and trap + net allows her to get out of bad situations.

the only thing I can think of in general is to think of using good judgement and treat everything like a resource. Their mana is a resource, make them try to waste it ( baiting Sivir's spell shield for example ). Their hp is another resource, whittle that down to make them less aggressive.

and one big thing... dont' be afraid to auto attack minion waves even if it means missing out on some minions. In 1 v 2 situations where I don't expect relief / our jungler isn't good, I treat my tower's hp as the number one resource.


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MrRev

Member

07-05-2011

1)- well pretty much any lane duo that has good cc and dmg out put is a bich to fight. but it really all depends on what champ you and your lane partner are. IMO the worst lane combo i have had to face.....corkie and sokora is kinda a *****. my favorite, Zil and Gangs. (your gangs needs a stacked crit rune page) bomb and parley, can knock most squishys down by half with just those 2, and its super easy to harrass.


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Xenarcher

Member

07-05-2011

There are too many laning duos to list them all out here along with counters. Suffice it to say that some champions can 1v2 while others can't. In general, the ones that can have one or more of the following characteristics:

1) Good farming ability (usually AoE ability of some sort)
2) Reasonable sustainability (it doesn't matter if you have good farming ability if you can't sustain it for more than a few waves)
3) Reasonable survivability (it doesn't matter if you can sustain a good farm if you're fragile as glass and can be easily tower dived)

Cho'Gath is a good example of a champ that can 1v2. All three of his abilities are AoE, and his passive gives him good sustainability. He's also naturally tanky enough that he can take a bit of abuse without being forced out of the lane.


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dovvntempo

Senior Member

07-05-2011

can't believe cho didn't come up first in my mind!


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BrotherCaine

Senior Member

07-05-2011

Cho can be harrassed down by two AD ranged, i've seen it happen. Cho's jungler may come to help him out but if cho has to walk through a swarm of enemy creeps to fight, after already being harrassed badly, he's going to turn into a free kill. (Gentleman chogath voice 'Oh noe....')


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Xenarcher

Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherCaine View Post
Cho can be harrassed down by two AD ranged, i've seen it happen. Cho's jungler may come to help him out but if cho has to walk through a swarm of enemy creeps to fight, after already being harrassed badly, he's going to turn into a free kill. (Gentleman chogath voice 'Oh noe....')
Yes, of course. If you pick any given champion, I bet I'll always be able to find two other champions that will give the one you picked an impossible time in lane.

The point is that certain champions have far fewer counters in a 1v2 lane than others. Cho can still go up against most laning combos safely.


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MrRev

Member

07-05-2011

i like nasus (tank nasus) for 2 vs 1, once you get his E up in lvl, you can pretty much take out a wave of minions and stay a safe distance back. if they get to close just pop W on em and back away. but thats just my opinion.


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pehtis

Member

07-07-2011

Thanks all for your posts as it's in keeping with my initial thoughts. Many PvP games (especially ranked) are lost by poor decision making when comes to the various champs and lane combos. I have noticed this already in ranked the initial ranked games I have played. Most players can play but haven't a clue regarding correct lane partners, let alone how to effectively counter harass.

I do hope the thread at the very least has been of some help to less experienced players. The more I think on it the more it seems that each of the 3 subjects require their own separate threads. I feel if a player can increase their understanding with these, it will improve their game.